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Hi,
After 2 decades of 240DL wagons (1986 and 1990), we're moving on.
There's a '93 940 Turbo for sale with 165k miles (I know it's legit).
The main reason we're giving up on our 1990 240 is because it's just getting less reliable and the parts are getting harder to find (interior and trim, especially).
I'm wondering whether the 940 will be more of the same problems (reliability and parts) or not and what I should be asking about in terms of servicing at that mileage? We're basically trading in a 24 year old for a 22 year old car (but with less mileage and a different model).
I'm handy. Not a mechanic. I can change the oil, sparks, shocks, and brake pads. Other than that, it's off to the shop.
Any other suggestions/comments would be appreciated. The uses of the car are:
1) My wife's an urban gardener, here in NYC. The 240DL has been awesome for hauling.
2) We travel to Virginia and Vermont a lot. I love to drive long distance. Comfort's a must.
We're also looking at the XC70 series.
Thanks, people.
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I would encourage you to avoid the 2001-2002 model year. I just broke off a year-long relationship with a 2001 V70 XC. Very comfortable. Very quiet. Very refined. (I bought it to replace my 1979 245) VERY complicated and trouble-prone. I understand that the later models are better, but there will still be things that you will need a dealer or very specialized indie-shop to repair.
I have reverted back to a 240 ('89) after that experience, and will likely never own another Volvo newer than mid-'90s.
--
1966 122s, 1968 142s, 1969 144s, 1979 245dl, 2001 V70 XC
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Yeah...we're either going to go for the '93 940 Turbo or overhaul our '90 240DL. Rachel's urban gardening business is hard on a vehicle. Need something that'll take a punch and not cost an arm and a leg when it does.
Thanks, Bud (love 'em cold).
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Hi gitapik,
In my opinion, any old car will be needing a good care after 20 years. So, I don't think it will much difference whether you have a 240 or 940 at this point. It will cost a fortune to keep these cars on the road unless you are taking care of it by yourself.
Based on your situation, I recommend 2004-2007 V70. It's just like a XC70 except it's not AWD. You don't have to get a set of four tires every time when you need new tires. Also, if your car ever gets towed, you will have a less chance of ruining the drive train. You can ask AWD forum for more details. They will help you more. Good luck.
If you decide to fix your 240. You can ask Dave/Volvo from Heck whether he can swap your transmission. You can just page him here. If you decide to do that, then get a rear main seal and tail shaft bushing replaced at the same time.
By any chance, are you married to Annie?
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Not married to Annie. My good friend, Robert, is, though. They recently shelved their '85 240DL and are now leasing a new Honda CR-V.
I like the V70, but my concern is how well it will haul Rachel's gardening stuff. Bags of soil, plants, etc, can really add up. That's why I was thinking of the XC70. My next door neighbor mentioned putting heavier duty springs or shocks on a stock V70 to compensate. Thoughts?
BTW: I know someone with a '98 V70. Not the most comfy compared to the 240. Are the 2004-07 more comfortable.
(Man...my wife just asked me to check out totally overhauling the 240DL. New AC. New everything. I'm trying to tell her that I'm just not up for that kind of work and the mechanics = $$$. She really loves that car).
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Hi gitapik,
Robert and Annie
He's a lucky guy. Few years back, I met Annie when I did volunteer work at her garden, I really like that girl. In my mind, I was hoping to introduce her to my bachelor friends.
Dave/Volvo from Heck
If you are looking a mechanic. I believe Dave is one of the best candidate in our Tri state area. He knows Volvo. You should find out how much it will cost to overhaul it. Maybe it won't cost as much.
Heavy duty spring modification
OK, I see why you need a XC70. You should ask the IPD folks for advice. Ron Wyman is my go to guy there but you can contact any one of their staff. Also, I see that you opened a thread on AWD forum. You should mention it about putting heavy duty springs and see what they say.
2004-2007 model comfort
Yes, based on my driving impression, the 04-07 XC70/V70 are very quiet, comfortable and safe. For the first 100K miles, the car will be needing the basic maintenance items like oil change, air filter/cabin, trans fluid/differential fluid change, brake pads and tires.
Good luck whatever you and your wife decide to do.
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Yeah...Annie's quite a gal. Robert's a good man. Works out well.
Thanks for the info. Love this place. Have a good one.
(I think we'll end up going for a newer car...but we'll see).
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Hi gitapik,
FYI. You can buy one.
http://www.ipdusa.com/products/9029/120374-differential-electronic-module-cover-dem-p2-p3-awd
Or you can make one for yourself.
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1589743/220/240/260/280/new_wheels.html
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If an XC 70 series and you want used, you'll want avoid the years with the FWD trans-axle output to the drive shaft problem that connects to the AWD system.
There exists procedure to remove the AWD drive-shaft and remove the rear axle differential. I've read articles where XC-Volvo owners return to the stealership for the AWD system repair using OEM parts only to have it fail again in 2 years or so. Read some Volvo auto model articles on both iPdusa.com and fcpgroton.com.
fcpgroton.com had a newsletter article on how to remove the AWD drive-shaft recently as a cheap alternative to repairing a fallible gear assembly and other issues.
As you are handy, yet not up to inspecting the FWD constant velocity (CV) protective boots and CV joints inside and repacking with fresh grease every 35-50k, and replace the timing belt ever 100k or so, please see:
- https://www.brickboard.com/SHOPS/
- http://www.volvomechanics.com/
- http://www.cartalk.com/mechanics-files
Check the BBB and research, with a huge salt grain, the the opinion sites for anecdotal information indicating service quality and trustworthiness of a repair facility.
You may want to stick with a FWD-only Volvo.
As for the 940, well, at 165k, you may have wear items to replace as with a 240. They are the same engine, yet the 1993 four-cylinder turbo should be fine if the prior owners have cared for it and can present records. I'd prefer the normally-aspired (non-turbo) 940.
Uncle dinomartino is correct. The 940 is a larger, most importantly wider body auto. So you have more comfort. You also have a host of luxury items like power seats that can go askew, yet research the brickboard should you have a problem and you'll find probably diagnostic help and solutions.
If the 940 comes with the independent rear suspension, please keep in mind at 165k you may have some rear suspension and the auto-leveling rear shocks to replace. (Some suggestions do exist as to performance rear shocks to replace the auto-height shocks. If you do, you may want a heftier rear spring.)
Read the 700/900 FAQ. The 1993 940 may an OBD-1 equipped car, so you can check for fault codes across all reporting systems before you buy so you know what you're getting into. Please see:
- https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineOBDCodes.htm
- Buying a Used Volvo 700/900?
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/BuyingUsed7xx.htm
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/HighMileageVehiclePrevMaint.htm
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/
Consider the 940 a 240, evolved. Yet beset with issues both like that of the 240 and endemic to the 940 series.
Research the matter, check the OBD on the 940 you may want to buy, so you can fully cost out what liabilities you may own beyond the purchase, licensing, and insurance costs.
240 parts are not hard to come buy. If a piece of interior or exterior trim, as you read in many brickboard comments, the self-service Volvo 240/260 equipped salvage yard can be a economical used parts resource. You can find parts salvage yard parts for your 240 from 700/900 series.
Tasca Volvo (www.tascavolvo.com)in Cranston, RI can provide you with quality OEM Volvo factory parts for far less than any NYC Volvo stealership even with shipping from RI. UPS ground should arrive to you in a day or two if you need a thing.
Also, FCP Groton (www.fcpgroton.com) in Groton, CT (home of Pfizer's big fat global data center and the U.S. Navy base) has parts for you, yet you must verify the parts are not made in China. Avoid Meyle, for example. You want new front shocks for your 240? Get front Bilstein Touring. (Bilstein HDs won't fit.) Or have your chosen service facility do the work, yet you direct where the parts come from.
Some of us will get into the rear wheel bearings in the home garage on a Volvo as they need to be inspected and repacked with fresh grease every 150k or so, just like the 940 series. You have your mechanic to do that for you, so, well, there you go.
How are your 240 big square headlights? Can you place your finger under the center bottom edge and pull up on the lens without moving the rest of the assembly? The adhesive securing the lens to the reflector body has failed. You can buy new or clean, remove old grey brittle glue, and reglue the lens to the reflector using something like Goop Marine or RV (one of the UV-resistance Goop glues). May need to reglue the bottom metal reflector strip to the lens bottom, too.
My vote, the 940 first, with caveats. A FWD, and not an XC or AWD equipped, Volvo over the years of problematic AWD XC-model Volvos. Maybe the newest XC-models are less problematic. You can research that.
You may want to ask the www.brickboard.com/FWD forum for more info on what FWD and AWD Volvo models may suit your needs.
Questions?
Hope that helps.
Hot and Stuffy MacDuff, Hatin' Summertime.
--
Kitty and / or Volvo meme LOLz, NOW! (Cause I don't has original funny expreshunz like Uncle Art B. at the end of each of my posts.)
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My wife and I got a chance to drive both the '92 240DL and '93 940 Turbo, this afternoon.
240 is asking $4500. 143k miles.
940 Turbo is asking $3000. 160k miles.
Both have been sitting on the street through the winter months, just being moved for alternate side parking by my mechanic, who's friends with both the owners (and me, as well). Trust factor's good.
I think we're going to pass on the 240. My wife loves the familiarity (she's really in love with 240s), but I noticed a "thunk" when we were at a light. Checked the tranny fluid and the stick was bone dry. Doesn't matter how long it's been sitting, ime....that tells me there's a leak somewhere. A/C wasn't working. It's supposed to be a totally new one, from an independent. I wouldn't know. It just wasn't working. The front bumper and all the trim were being held onto the frame with screws. Grill was cracked. Hood latch doesn't spring back after it's been popped. Gotta push it forward to close the hood. Power steering fluid was green.
It started really funky, too. Both when I turned it over to first check it out and after checking the fluids. Significant shaking of the body. Started fine the third time I turned it over, both times.
Mechanic said it needs a catalytic converter. He knows that for sure.
Bottom line: why spend $4500 on a '92 240 which will need work when we can spend that money or less to get ours going again?
I really liked the 940 Turbo. I like the ride better than the 240. Handles really well, too. A/Cs working ok...but mainly when the car's in motion (I remember that from the 240 when the A/C worked). Mechanic said he hasn't checked it out at all, but it probably needs a fluid change, regardless.The interior's in very good (not excellent) shape. Paint's scratched here and there on the exterior, but I didn't see any rust and there's no way they painted over any of it. Stereo's antenna is in the rear side window (never seen that before). Sunroof's working well. The passenger side front door's cargo tray (don't know what it's called) is cracked. Needs replacement or duct tape.
Our main concern is that the car vibrated when it was in idle, at stop lights. Not horrible, but noticeably. Rachel's concerned that's about the turbo, but we used to have a 740 Turbo Intercooler and it was dead quiet and motionless in idle. If that's endemic to the car, then it's a no go.
As I said: my mechanic's selling both cars for his friends. I am a friend, too. Not close, but we're good. Known him for 30 years and we get along well. I trust him. He said he'd check whichever car we're interested in over with a fine tooth comb for nothing as long as he knows we're interested enough to buy it if there's nothing major wrong. He's selling as a favor. Not a used car dealer.
I had some interesting conversations with both him and the mechanics there. The mechanics like both cars, but when I told them that Rachel's a gardener who hauls stuff all over the city with whatever car we're getting, they strongly advised an older car (regardless of maker). Besides the obvious heartbreak of dings on a nice, new looking car, that constant city use will bring; they also said that the older cars, minus the computer system and extras, can take more abuse before requiring repairs than the newer counterparts. And that they're less expensive to repair.
The owner (head mechanic/friend), when I asked his opinion of the two cars, said that the 240DL is a true sentimental favorite of his, but that, as a total package, he'd prefer the 940 Turbo. Said that's just his personal...but I can take it as just that.
And that's what just went down. The 240DL's out of the picture. We might look for a place to put ours on cinderblocks or possibly just bite the bullet and really renovate it (new A/C included). My personal inclination is to go with the 940 Turbo, at this point.
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btw: the driver's seat is electrically manipulated. The passenger seat is manual. I'm wondering: can the seat portion's angle be changed? I'd like it to sit back a little bit more than it's currently set at.
Thanks.
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Dang...looks like I came to the right place.
I had a feeling that the 940 would be a similar animal. Good to know all the extra info you've given me, here, Thanks.
I'd actually love to find a manual shift somewhere. I had to drive my daughter to Oberlin when the tranny crapped out on my 240. My friend lent me his Audi A4, 6 speed, manual shift for the trip. I haven't had that much fun since my 5 speed Accord (1989). Eight wonderful hours each way.
Thanks, man. Great info.
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Okay, I own a 1989 240 wagon and a 1993 940 (non-turbo) wagon. The 940 has some features that make is a lot more practical for hauling cargo--the split back seat, superior backseat release levers, and more horizontal space. Tailgate wiring in the 940 is not a chronic problem. The blower motor on a 940 can be replaced in an hour. THe 940 is generally a more modern, smoother riding, more comfortable, and structurally safer (unibody redesigned for 1993 to meet 1997 side impact standards) vehicle. Visibility is about the same in both models: excellent (especially compared to anything new). Your 240's both had the crappy old A/C system--the 940 has the newer CCOT system, which performs adequately.
That said, I have found the 240 generally easier to work on (I have yet to experience heater core or blower motor failure on it, though). Interior parts have about the same level of availability on both models (rarely available from the dealer anymore, crapshoot to find in good condition in the junkyard). The 940 (in the US market) only has power windows, and the mechanisms wear out at the center pivot resulting in poor window sealing (wind noise) when closed. My 240 has crank windows, and a biennial clean/lube seams to keep them happy. The 240's electrical system is a chronic weak point, but I do find it simpler to diagnose than the 940, and anything involving accessing the 940 central electrical panel can be really an ordeal. A 240 can be just as comfrotable as a 940, if you are willing to spend the time and $ to rebuild the seats properly. (There's a guy selling new foam cushions and upgraded seat grids)
The instrument clusters in 940 are prone to bad traces and loose solder joints. I am absolutely not a fan of those Yazaki clusters.
In short: I love my 240, and would drive it anywhere. That's the car I take on road trips (except when it's really hot, and the 940's A/C is a must, or it's snowy/icy and the 940's ABS is a must). THe 940 is just a practical car, the 240 has character.
John
--
1989 245 245K / 1993 945 131K
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Hey...what more could I ask for in a reply?
The AC sucks on my 240.
AKA: it's non-existent at this point.
The electrical's not much better.
I'm also having problems with the tranny. The seal leaks and it's staying in 1st gear from time to time.
That said: I love (love) that car.
Thanks, John. Much obliged.
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