Hello. I have been living with chronic wet start issues, sounding a lot like cgilmore Dec. 5th post. It is mysterious and inconsistent. Warm, pervasive, foggy mist seems a sure culprit. Prolongued rain another. If it rains heavily while the car is in use, driving is not affected. Mechanics have checked and replaced some obvious, but I may go crazy if I hear distributor cap, spark plugs, ignition coil one more time! One mechanic suggested the ethanol in gasoline was causing wet fuel and recommended Seafoam or Lucas, and Shell gasoline. I frequently use premium grade Shell, and have tried Lucas, but nothing cures. Currently enjoying one of the wettest Boston Decembers on record, my beloved 1992 240 wagon is increasingly undependable. Reading the posts bring my thoughts back to what may or may not be a clue: My wagon still has the wiring from one of those huge, original cell phones that sat in a flex holder on the passenger side, and whose small microphone hangs down the driver side from a black wire emerging from the seam of the white ceiling cover. Sometimes, but not always, rain water drips down that microphone into the car. Driving in a heavy summer rain and wearing flip flops, water once began dripping from somewhere under the instrument dash onto my left foot. Can anyone venture a guess as to how these leaks are occurring, what they might be affecting, and any connection to wet starting problems? P.S. The battery is new. The starter strong. A rock cracked the windshield and it was replaced. The car seems to want to turn over, but it reminds me of trying to strike a damp match. Or of dry, inefficient coughing. As others have experienced, when the weather clears, my wonderful, vintage "Duckboat" takes off smiling, and our troubles seem to fade. Until the clouds next darken!

Nice guy on Craigslist who was advertising 240 parts installed an ignition coil from a car with no known problems. His looked as old and used as mine, which he admitted showed no telltale defects, but for $20 and an invitation to bring it back if it didn't fix the problem, off I went. Two overnight rains and one all day soaker since, my car has started like a stallion. More rain coming tonight and tomorrow, and hoping for continued good fortune.

My wet starting troubles began about two years ago with a "special deal" coupon for a Florida Mobil gas station: oil change, trillion-point check. I was directed into the bay and the floor opened, revealing several mechanics below who raced with raised tools to my car's underside. Alarming! Soon after, my car had difficulty starting following a day and night of torrential rains. With every long, soaking rain thereafter, to varying degrees, it has continued. One of the first things I checked was for arcing in the dark night. I also checked, with my limited understanding, the pertinent fuse and proximate wetness. An indie Volvo mechanic whose wife drove the same car showed me a cut that looked suspiciously fresh in the crank position (?) cable near the firewall and replaced it. No luck. I brought the car back. He water sprayed and tested and when I picked it up said everything looked sound and suggested ethanol was wreaking havoc with the fuel, making it wet, and recommended Lucas or Seafoam, and Shell gasoline. While fussy wet starts became my norm, the won't-start-at-all used to be rare, tied to extreme, wet conditions; for instance, those torrential rains, and back in Boston, a hurricane. Mostly, the car eventually kicked over, driving a bit stumbly at first, and requiring that the gas pedal stay depressed at stops to prevent stalling for the first mile or so. Currently, even relatively tame rainy nights mean my car won't get me to work the next morning. A few weeks ago, after not starting and sitting through several rainy days, when I next tried starting the car the muffler blew up. Towed to the shop which is now inconvenient from where I live but where the muffler was warranted, the mechanic asked the trick for starting. I referenced the wet issue and that it needed to dry out. As have other mechanics, he pulled the distributor cap, checked the spark plug wires, the new battery, looked at this and that, pulled the plug off the ignition coil, sanded it, lubed it, put it back on. They pushed it into the heated bay. Reluctant to replace the muffler until they could start it and see what caused the explosion, they let it sit, then got a raggedy start and a couple of huge backfires. The woman at the desk told me I didn't have a wet start issue, that it might be a timing issue, and that my car backfires. I said my car doesn't normally backfire. Grrrrrr. I agreed to waive the warranty and asked them to put the replacement muffler on. With that finished, and a few hours passed since the car entered the heated bay, they turned the key and, shocking to them but unsurprising to me, the car started like a quiet charm -- and then passed its annual inspection. As of yesterday, with the rains returned, my car won't start. I tried three times, and it made the usually hopeful, puttery sound of starting to catch, but I hesitated to keep trying, worried about the possibility of unspent fuel and another muffler explosion (although no one said that was the cause). I very much appreciate your time and thoughts. Adding to what is already on Brickboard, you have offered useful knowledge and further things to be investigated. Meanwhile, Happy Holidays to all.

Check the ground wire from the cam cover to the firewall. It helps ground the spark plugs.

Maybe even during a no start, use a jumper cable from the -ve battery post to the engine block and head to rule out poor grounding.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.

Trev29, on Christmas Day, with extensive rain ended four hours earlier, car wouldn't start - not even a flutter this time, just a brief, sharp metal click mid-hood when turning key. (I have heard this before during these start attempts about which little seems consistent.) My son-in-law, visiting for the holiday, tried a jump. He hooked the cables traditionally, two cars connected battery post to battery post. My car did not respond at all. Curious if this attempt at a jump equates to the ground troubleshooting you suggested via jumper cable to negative post and engine block/head? The next morning, weather still dry, it was no surprise that the car started right up.

"not even a flutter this time, just a brief, sharp metal click mid-hood when turning key."

That's a different symptom than the one you described previously. That would indicate a starter problem.

Previously you stated, "The starter strong. The car seems to want to turn over, but it reminds me of trying to strike a damp match. Or of dry, inefficient coughing.", "when I next tried starting the car the muffler blew up." etc. leading me to believe that the starter was doing its job but there was poor ignition.

Either way, check your grounds to the block and, as Amarin suggests, the positive connection to the starter.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.

Typically, the starter is very strong during these wet no-starts, and the sounds are of a car wanting to turn over. I was reminded on Christmas of that sharp metal click that rarely occurs. When the weather is dry, my car starts dependably with one turn of the key. Thank you for all of your thoughtful, knowledgeable steerage.

Hi,

"not even a flutter this time, just a brief, sharp metal click mid-hood when turning key"

Seems that the power doesn't get to the starter or the starter is the problem.

If the car can start in dry weather its unlikely ground or supply issue. Your starter may be on its way out. I think its doing that in cold damp weather (rain). Is the starter still original?

Next time in no start, locate the starter solenoid terminal and try to short it to the battery supply wire (also on the starter, next to it). Alternatively you can run a wire from positive batt terminal and just touch the starter solenoid terminal. Leave ignition off in both tests.

By doing this you're testing only the starter. It should turn/crank. If its not then you know where the problem lies.

Amarin.

Did you have these sorts of issues before the windshield was replaced? The dripping water you mention could be from a leaking windshield, and if that leak happens to allow water onto the fuse panel, well, you can imagine the sort of gremlins that could conjure.

Yes, SwedeFreak, thanks for helping and I did have the problem before the windshield was replaced. I was hoping that the new windshield install would be the fix for that dripping! Another oddity is that the cellphone wire, and under the dash, dripping does not manifest regularly. I have coverered the car with a to-the-back-doors heavy tarp--in fact it is raining and covered (and not starting) now. I am looking at notes from: "10 Common Issues of 240's," which I think was compiled by IPD: "Pre-pump inside fuel tank prevents starting, vapor lock and other issues." Not sure how realistic a possibility that is in my case, and will have to learn more about it.

Dampness will effect a weak ignition system. At night, with the car running, open the hood and look for arcing. Maybe even spray the cables with a mist of water.

Keep some dry tissues on hand and if it's damp outside and the car doesn't start, pop the thingamabob off and wipe the inside down with a tissue. Make sure you seat and clamp it properly before retrying the start.

WD40 supposedly was designed to displace moisture from electrical connections.
--
1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.

One thing that does get affected by water on the driver side in 91, 92 and early 93 is the connection to fuse 6. Look for signs it has overheated. Then replace the fuse with one having copper or brass element (not the silver colored) making sure the fuse holder tabs are cleaned well.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Every calendar's days are numbered.

I agree with everything that poster Trichard said.

There is not a whole lot on the drivers side that gets wet that will directly cause a hard start except the fuse panel in the door pillar. You would have to check for wetness in there.
The fuses get corroded rather easly even without water leaks.. Moisture from wet shoes can migrate there all on its on.

You did not mention anything about the spark plug "wires" including the coil wire. If you go crazy from here on out, it was not me that said anything on those other ignition things.

Out under the hood there is a couple other moisture sensitive items and it's the Crank Position Sensor. CPS.
Has it ever been replaced and does the cable for it look nice and healthly? It runs down behind the cylinder head at the firewall.

The other item to consider is the power stage amplifier that "cuddled" away behind the battery. The connector get very little maintenance attention. It's a middle man to the igntion coil getting fired!

Like Trichard said you need to "snoop and tell" a lot more for us to be worthy of your effort to seek help.

ARE YOU IN?

Phil

you neglect to mention the level of diagnostics performed when it won't start

have you verified you have spark or no spark when this occurs?

have you verified you have fuel or no when it occurs?

thus far there is insufficient data to hazard more than an un informed guess