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Brake bleeding Very frustrated 200

I have an 1988 Volvo 240 project car that I did alot of work to. Summary, New front hoses(4),front calipers,rotors,pads and master brake cylinder(ATE). I bled the brakes a few times following the procedure in the bentley manual. There are no bubbles at the bleeder screws and yet the pedal goes to the floor. I'm using a Motive brake bleeder at 25psi. This is not my first brake job but am at the end of my rope. My first 240 brake job. Any ideas?? Thanks Matt








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    Try bleeding by pumping 200

    Hi Grassman,

    I also have used Motive bleeder last time. A good product especially when flushing out old brake fluid with a fresh one. But I sometimes got that spongy pedal you've described. When this happens I go back to manual bleeding by pumping.

    With Motive bleeding the fluid flow is slow (also depends on how much you set the pressure) so any air bubbles trapped in high places might not get pushed out.

    I suggest you go back to manual pumping. And you've got a new master cylinder there. So no worries about seal damage from being pushed into any rusted innards of the cylinder (because there is none).

    With speedier fluid flow (you get jet of fluid when you open the bleeder) you could push the air bubbles out more easily. A bit old school and messy perhaps but it gets the job done.

    Good luck,
    Amarin.








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      Try bleeding by pumping 200

      Hey guys, I got it!!!!!! I did the old school and pushed the brake pedal to bleed. Amazing how much air came out. The sad part is that is how I used to do it until I got this new fangled stuff. Thanks again for all the help. Grassman








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        Try bleeding by pumping 200

        That is amazing that the pedal at first went to the floor and did not at least pump up one circuit.
        Rears or front?

        You used an air bleeder before and yet fluid had to go through th MC chambers!

        Air must have been filling in on the back stroke.
        At least through some open fitting fitting somewhere?

        Very strange indeed!

        Phil








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          Try bleeding by pumping 200

          There is no one more surprised than me. I think I will only use the Motive for flushing/exchanging the brake fluid and not bleeding. When I "old schooled bleeding" alot of air came from the rears and very little from the front. Yes, everything was tight. I wanted to share what solved the problem so hopefully it helps someone else. Thanks again. Matt








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      Try bleeding by pumping 200

      I have always used a pressure pump, but always do some manual pedal pumps each time I close a bleeder and move onto the next one.

      I go through the bleed sequence several times to insure the best bleed I can get.

      Dan








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    Brake bleeding Very frustrated 200

    see https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1588044&show_all=1
    --
    1980 245 Canadian B21A with SU carb, M46 trans, 3:31 dif, in Brampton, Ont.








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    Brake bleeding Very frustrated 200

    Do you still have the original calipers ?

    I put 2 quarts of fluid through a set of 'new' rebuilt calipers and could never get a pedal. Reinstalled the old calipers and they worked fine. Second set of 'new' rebuilt calipers also worked fine. I think that somewhere in the rebuilding process they mixed up ABS and non ABS caliper halves on the first set.

    Greg








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      Brake bleeding Very frustrated 200

      Greg, The original calipers were froze and the MC was leaking like a sieve and contaminated. I bought the car for "scrap" price. Before I repurchase new parts I want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious. Thanks Matt








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        Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

        Putting lucid: caliper halves in the search box at top right corner above should yield a lot of posts from a few years back, when this (pre-ABS) problem was first discovered.

        Key portion from a 2005 post is shown below:

        =============X
        1. In the Girling 4-piston calipers, the upper two piston chambers basically form an inverted U, with ONE common bleeder at the highest point.
        The lower two piston chambers form an upright U, with bleeders at each of the TWO high points.

        2. Rebuilders sometimes get the INNER and OUTER caliper halves calipers mismatched. (i.e. The Left Side INNER half, where the lines attach, will have a Right Side OUTER half paired to it but that OUTER half will be upside down.

        3. During the original assembly, Girling distinctly marks the bottom of each caliper half with a punched "dimple" mark next to the joint. So a mark on the TOP of an OUTER caliper half means a mismatch.

        4. Such a caliper will have:
        A - No fluid path to the Upper-Outer cylinder
        B - No way to bleed the Lower-Outer cylinder

        What appears to be the normal Outside-Lower piston bleeder actually leads upward to a dead end, at what should be a lower piston chamber.

        And the misplaced Lower-Outer chamber has no bleed path except down and then up to the Inside bleeder.
        =======================X



        --
        Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.








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          Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

          In my searching on brickboard I remember reading this but thought that problem was resolved. I will check this later on and if that is the problem what is the solution. Another set of calipers?? Thank You Matt








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            Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

            I doubt the problem has been "resolved", given who knows how many rebuilders. But it may gave lessened due to fewer non-ABS rebuilds.

            When you look for that factory punch-mark (dimple), remember that it may have all but disappeared after many sand-blasting cycles.

            There should be no sign of a dimple on the top of the outer caliper half. Confirm OK by looking for 2 dimples on the bottom, 1 on each side of the parting line.

            AFAIK the only solution is replacement, hopefully at the supplier or rebuilder's expense.


            --
            Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.








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              Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

              I just checked and the dimples are on the bottom on each side of the parting line. Thanks Matt








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                Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

                Looks like it time to take the master cylinder back.

                Maybe a seal is in there wrong, if it's never worked.
                There could be a chunk of junk in there or a bad or rusty gouge in the bore and they missed it!

                It is a blind hole to the bottom of that casting.

                It is possible that the rebuilder, from a special government rehab program, was blind too!

                If a person gets paid by the pieces done, you can bet on an onset of blindness from time to time!

                An inspector only checks a limited percentage of the total batch. The randomness works both ways!

                Randomness and Chaos are kissing cousins you know!

                You got both and that explains the knots in your rope ends! (:-)

                Phil










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                  Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

                  Did you bench bleed the master before installing it? Rebuilt or new?








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                    Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

                    could be a leak or too much piston travel maybe one frozen piston so the moving one over compensates and uses up all the pedal travel.check to see if the rear rotors are bending when brakes are activated.








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                    Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

                    I bought an ATE from fcp groton and that is new. Yes, I did bench bleed. There are some things I don't get cheap on and brakes,steering and tires I don't price shop on. I also feel all the advice you guys are giving is not the problem. Very frustraing. Thanks so much. Matt








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                      Front Caliper outer halves mixed up by rebuilder? 200 1988

                      Hey Grassman maybe your booster is bad otherwise only two things will cause the brake pedal to go to the floor a massive leak or a bad MC.







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