Well, I think I figured it out: why the over drive would not engage for the first couple of miles: low voltage. I still have a generator, the original probably, think the voltage is too low. The 30 amp number for engagement sticks in my mind. Seem like the engine runs better with higher voltage also. Not surprised, this was a seriously used vehicle and probably just limped along in the last days of it's previous life.

When I wind the revs up to get past 60 in 4th, THEN the o-drive engages without an issue, and is generally ok for the rest of the days tour. Only after it cools does it falter again.

I found an alternator bracket in the wet bucket of parts I got with the car, so I'm ready for that change.

Which orientation is best ? 12 3 or 6?
10SI, 63 amp, at 3:00 (AC-DELCO # 321-39)
10SI, 63 amp 9:00 orientation (AC-DELCO # 321-41)
10SI, 63 amp 12:00 orientation (AC-DELCO # 321-43)

And thanks again to PhilS and RonK for the instruction pages:
http://www.sw-em.com/altkit.htm
http://www.vclassics.com/archive/delco.htm


--
MPergiel, Walker, MI

I vote for low oil in tranny/od. The oil pump in OD only works when car is moving and is not affected by engine RPM.
The fill plug is on the right side of the tranny case. Oil should up to the point of running out when plug is removed.
When adding oil, fill until its running out, put plug back in a few
threads and wait 5 minutes. Check again and level will be down some as it takes time for the 30W non detergent oil to make its way through rear main bearing and into the OD unit. Do this at least twice and tranny and OD unit will be full.
Good luck, Tom

Michael;

I advise monitoring Elec System Voltage in general and maybe even specifically at OD Sol in support of your assertion that Low Voltage is preventing it from engaging...without some concrete proof of low Voltage, its presumptive and really only unfounded conjecture, because it could be electrical but it could also be inadequate OD oil pressure (hows OD Oil level?) which is causing symptoms! This is possibly confirmed by temperature dependency, which is not/(less) consistent with an elec issue

I agree that OD Sol is a heavy load, but 30A is way too high (that would be the entire rated output of Bosch Gen!...and the resulting 360Watts of dissipation would be enough to make the Sol visible from Space on IR satellites! ...where did you get that number?)...I believe it is more like 10A inrush (Pulling Coil AND Holding Coil together), dropping to under 5A Holding Coil only). See also: http://www.sw-em.com/OD_Retrofitting.htm#OD_Solenoid_Notes

If this is a 123GT (doubtful, as they had factory Alts) OD is on Fuse1 circuit. If this is an OD retrofit, assure OD is Fused!...if Lucas Sol fails, without in-line protection, your asking for big trouble!

Upgrading to an Alt is a good Idea (anyway!), if low Elec Sys voltage is indeed the issue because of OD Sol load, it wont be after installing Alt! If it's one of my Alt Kit Brackets, contact me off line for installation info/help.

Good Hunting!

Derek; Water and bucket analogies are OK, but I have to gently disagree, and point out that when engine is running, Charging System is supposed to supply all Loads, AND have sufficient OOMPH left over to keep sys voltage up which in-turn charges Battery...if it does not, sys voltage is down and Battery needs to add power, that's a bad, undesirable (net Discharge!) situation that's unsustainable in the long-run!

Ron. Yes I take that as a given. The generator has to have the ability to supply over and above what is needed at any time with the regulator controlling the supply to the battery, and hopefully keeping it topped up. Keeping to the bucket analogy a poor battery is like a leaky bucket needs more topping up, it can get very leaky before the electrics fail. The ignition requires very little in the way of amps. With the situation reversed, failed generator, a decent battery will take you a couple of hundred miles even with a restart half way. Voice of experience there. But,the condition of the battery and it's ability to take a charge is critical. The 10 year old battery that gives you a start on a warm summer day might be found wanting at -20 on a snowy winter one.
The O rings I mentioned are inside the OD and not the seal on the solenoid. The J type solenoid does have internal O rings and these can be a problem but as this is a D type that problem isn't relevant here.

Derek;

I'm OK with the water and bucket analogies, and your Battery info...it's just that your statement of that the "All the electrical requirements are actually supplied by the battery..." kindof bothered me...this should not be the case under normal conditions...but this IS certainly TRUE, and the case when Charging System (like that weak old Generator, maybe only turning at lower RPMs) is not putting out enough...then the Battery contributes...

For those reading along...this is not a hard switchover point, but all a function of Voltages...those of the Charging System (RPM and Temperature of Regulator dependent), and the Battery (condition, age, State of Charge and also Temperature dependent)...and even connections (wire gauges and in-line resistances which cause voltage drops when current flows) so one can see it is a complex interaction of a number of things, and difficult to predict...that's why we simply add an Amp or Voltmeter with which to monitor the Elec Sys, and keep and eye on it that way...

See also: http://www.sw-em.com/Battery%20Notes.htm
and: http://www.sw-em.com/elecramb.htm#voltmeter_vs_amp_meter

Cheers

The electrical requirements of the car are actually supplied by the battery. Consider it as a bucket of juice. The generator, dynamo or alternator, is there to keep it topped up as you use the juice. So, everything electrical, including the OD solenoid should function at any time, even with the engine off (ignition on), as long as the bucket is sufficiently full.
The OD, after being triggered into life by the solenoid, will only activate the OD if the internal pump is making enough pressure to move the internal clutch. If it can't do this it may be down to low oil level or bad O rings. As you have to get the revs up to get it to engage that might indicate bad O rings. Low oil level can also cause the OD to drop out by itself at some point after engagement.
Make sure your battery is good. An easy starting engine in warm conditions can get away with a poor battery for a long time as long as you drive a fair number of miles on a regular basis.
Check your gearbox oil level.
If it's bad O rings that will unfortunately mean an overhaul. O ring kit is cheap and if there is nothing else wrong the cost is down to labour, yours or the shop.
Clean/service your fuse box.

D-type I should have said. I pulled the relief valve thing, and the o-ring there MIGHT be a little old, but entirely intact. It had all the original locking wires through all the cap nuts. The filter was clean. I resealed the box (paper adapter gaskets, rear seal, speedo seal) and I'm pretty sure it's plenty full.

It is temperature dependent. At 90F degrees it engages right away. At 50F it takes 2 miles. Batteries work better when warm. Generators work poorly at low RPM so that they will not overload the mechanical regulator at high RPMs (I've read). Other loads are minor, although I have seen the alt light come on with wipers and fan running.

The alternator thing will go in soon. I kinda want an S12 just because it looks less like a Delco.
--
MPergiel, Walker, MI

I suggest you check your O/D solenoid amperage draw which is a fairly simple test if you have access to an amperage gauge.

The "D" solenoid is not just a simple electromagnet as it has an internal switch that controls a dual coil electromagnet.

When the O/D solenoid is initially energized, both electromagnet coils are energized and the solenoid will draw up to 15 amps.

But inside the solenoid is a switch that is opened when the plunger attached to the operating lever is drawn fully into the solenoid assuming the plunger is properly adjusted.

When the internal switch is opened, the high amperage closing coil is disconnected and only the low amperage holding coil is left on which should draw only 1 amp.

So if the switch is stuck open, damaged, has a dirty contact or the closing coil circuit is damaged, only the low amperage holding coil can pull the plunger and maybe the oil is too thick when cold for the solenoid to have enough power to pull the plunger.



--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com

Of course, who has an amperage gauge, other than holding a piece of awg18 in your hand and seeing how hot it gets? Which it doesn't, so you might be onto something there. I think pulling the solenoid and activating it would probably give a clue. I bet a 15 amp solenoid would snap loud and a 1 amp you could probably hold open with pliers.

Ammeters are hazardous, I doubt I'd want one in in a car with a vented gas tank.
--
MPergiel, Walker, MI

stop over and see my alt. conversion 3 mile and Bristol 784-9190 Dick

With the car not running and the solenoid still mounted on the O/D, you should hear a loud click from the solenoid when it is energized.

My brother made an amp gauge for testing purposes for less than $30.00.

He used a inexpensive unshunted 0-30 amp panel mount gauge he purchased at our local DIY electronic supply store along with a pair of large alligator clips, some 12ga or 14ga wire, an inline ATC fuse holder with ~14ga wire and some 30 amp ATC fuses and a pair of ring crimp connectors.

Just make sure you get the correct rated amp gauge as most of this type of gauge usually measures milliamps.

FYI, you should check the amperage draw with the solenoid mounted.

--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502