Hello all,

I've got a very nice 1985 245 turbo, has a rough idle when running OK - at times the idle will just plunge below 1000 and it will stall. When it is idling the exhaust is smelly so I assume it is running rich. I've managed to get the car to run without stalling by adjusting the main throttle stop screw. However this leads to the occasional situation (usually in hot weather) where the idle is unnecessarily high.

I bought this car about five years ago and it's remained drivable (in fact I drove it to the East coast from Portland, OR), and always figured some day I'd replace the idle air motor and that might fix it. Since the idle air motor is quite difficult to get at, this never made it to the top of my list.

I recently had the idle air motor replaced and it still does this. It runs rough down below around 1500 rpm, and bucks when driving in gear at low engine speed. Given the smelly exhaust and the rather irregular miss, I thought it might be the O2 sensor, so I took a look and - the port on the manifold is just plugged with a bolt. The green wire from the firewall is just hanging there disconnected.

One other piece of info, I recently replaced the cap, rotor, plug wires and plugs. It had been running iridium plugs but I installed the original spec Volvo plugs. With these plugs it seems to be running even worse.

I suppose the CIS system might be working fine but the engine is just unable to run properly at the low RPMs controlled by this system, due to improper mixture. Any thoughts on how to go about troubleshooting this would be appreciated.

I have an 85 244 Turbo and it took a long time to get it right.
1.You need to find all the vacuum leaks. Intake gasket,injector O rings(while you have them out check spray pattern),all vacuum lines,exhaust gaskets,exhaust pipe leaks,intercooler hoses.

2.Then on to the ignition(you said you changed the plugs,wires,rotor and distributor cap.Check timing is set to 12 degree's before TDC. Check wire connections,clean ground wires,fuel pump relay(good tight connections)and fuse connections.
3. Replace the O2 sensor(you can buy a O2 sensor socket at Advance Auto or other parts store)you need to do this ''before'' step 4.
4.Now you can set the base idle. Deactivate the CIS by grounding the blue wire on the drivers side inner fender (below the coil)there should be 2 wires 1 Blue and 1Red,you ground the blue wire and adjust the idle with the throttle screw.It may not idle without stalling so bring idle up to 750RPM's. Now activate (remove ground wire)and set the micro switch so it clicks just off throttle.
5.You should have the Fuel Pressure check or buy the set up for testing.This is important for a good running engine.
This should get you going.
Charlie

Thanks, Dobber13. Good to know someone else still has one of these on the road, and great to know you've got it running well. Mine actually runs really well and gets about 23 mpg around town - no more rough idle since I re-connected the O2 sensor. Just the thing won't idle till it's warmed up. Getting quite good at left-foot braking.

I have the greenbook for the CIS system

http://www.k-jet.org/files/greenbooks/200/Section%202%20-%20Engine/TP30363-2_cis_system_repairs.pdf

and plan to run through the electrical diagnostics it provides first - as mentioned in an earlier post, I had the engine wiring harness replaced and I want to make sure everything is connected properly and functioning.

I need to purchase a digital tachometer and see how low I can get this engine to idle - the dash tach seems to be pretty approximate but based on that if it drops below 1000 rpm it's going to stall. I guess I can't really troubleshoot the CIS (or know if it's working) if I can't get the engine idling down to 750-800. If it truly won't idle down that low then possibly it's leaks, timing, fuel pressure, O2 sensor, ...

you need to adjust the CO. Buy a Tack and Dwell meter. Follow the instructions in the Volvo Advanced Problem Solver. A minor Turn of that Allen head will solve it. I don't know why this Board is soooooo afeard of tweeking the CO on a KJet..,It's not like once you turn it you can never get back to where it was.

Jeees Louise

I've been here done that on this board before, argued with one poster for days, until he finally had the courage to try turning that adjuster....ooooooo it ran better. He took it to his mechanic who told him YEH, the CO was off all along.

Well, I hear you on that, CB. However, first things first.

I did, as mentioned earlier, find that the O2 sensor had been left unplugged. When I connected that, the rough idle and stumble at low speeds went away. But it still would not idle at low RPM when partially warmed up.

Yesterday I pressure tested the intercooler system from the turbo to the throttle body. Lo and behold, a big old vacuum leak in this hose running from the intercooler pipe at the TB to an apparent servo valve near the passenger side fender. This hose had looked like new, but had a big crack on the bottom where I couldn't see, by the nipple leading to the IC pipe. Trimmed off the last 2" and then was able to maintain pressure from the turbo to the TB. Just test drove it this AM - about 20 degrees out. No stall at idle through the warmup cycle. Idling high (as expected since I had the throttle adjusted high to keep it running previously.

Will adjust the base idle when it warms up a bit outside. What is that hose/servo valve anyway?

I think you are talking about the charge air system relay. It offloads a small amount of boast pressure from wastegate which increases the pressure to open the wastegate over the boost setting(Bentley Manual).

Yes you are going to need a digital tachometer and dwell to set it properly.If you have any questions you can also email me also.
I get around 20mpg around town but that's because I put a 331 rear in for better highway mpg.

Well, some new information here.

Turns out the O2 sensor on this is screwed in underneath the exhaust manifold, not in the outlet pipe of the turbo. It also turns out there is, in fact, an O2 sensor present, but it had been unplugged - possibly by my mechanic during the replacement of the idle air motor. Need to ask him whether he was mucking about on that side of the engine when he had it there. I went ahead and plugged it back in and the idle has smoothed out.

That being said, it still does not appear the CIS system is functioning. I went ahead and unplugged that from the microswitch, dropped the base idle down as low as I could with the throttle stop screw, and plugged the idle motor back in - no effect on idle speed at all.

So I have downloaded the green book for the k-jet CIS system from k-jet.org
http://www.k-jet.org/files/greenbooks/200/Section%202%20-%20Engine/TP30363-2_cis_system_repairs.pdf

This provides detailed troubleshooting steps for the electrical function of the system, and procedures for proper idle adjustment. It also reveals the fact that Volvo changed all sorts of details around from model to model and year to year... so I'll need to go through all this and figure out what's going on.

You just don't get to have this kind of fun with a non-turbo.

MachineMan is pointing you in the right direction...wrong system.

First and cheapest thing is to try an adjustment the CO ... aka the mixture.

Your problem is that without an O2 sensor, you cannot confirm this by taking a reading from the sensor output...done with a Multi meter or a Dwell Meter (a very Old Tech device from when there were "points n condensors")

at best you can do the adjustment the Old Fashioned way...by ear. tweek it till it runs good. You need an 8MM Allen wrench. turn 1/4 turn to the R...any change ...turn back and then 1/4 turn to L...any change...

Continue turning in small increments in the direction that Improves...turn until it starts to get worse, then back off.

This is the way in the way back you would adjust tne needle valve on Carburators...and is still the way you adjust the neeedle valve on carbed small engines...chain saws, lawn mowers, snow blowers, etc

Go Here:
http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/?dir=volvo/K-Jetronic/

and download: TP30400-1 CO Adjustment.pdf
to see where that Adjustment hole is located.

(don't worry about all that Sealed Steel Ball stuff, doubt your's is sealed.. just find the hole. PS...the actually allen Nut inside may be clogged with gunk so that the Allen Wrench (8MM) will not engage, you may have to spray down there to clear the "inny" on the nut)

Hope this works

page from Volvo Problem Solver C/O adjustment:

http://s819.photobucket.com/user/arlo244/media/Volvo%20CIS%20CO%20Adjust.jpg.html


This Book can alos be downloaded at Volvo Wiring Diagrams in the Trouble shooting folder

http://www.volvowiringdiagrams.com/?dir=volvo/Trouble%20Shooting%20Guides

Hello Machine Man, Kitty, and CB,

First of all thanks for all the great info and suggestions. I have the "notify by email" box checked, but never got any emails - guess I'll have to go look in the spam filter...

A little history here since these turbos are so rare - I did have the wiring harness replaced by a fellow from Vol-Tech - the Dave Barton harnesses are NLA, but I understand my guy used my car to build a nail board and is doing them now for folks. It took a while but it's been trouble-free including on the drive cross country.

So this car's a bit of an anomaly - just passed 300k miles a few months ago, and it's my daily driver. Black with black leather upholstery, car's name is Darth Volvo.

I'll work on the mixture adjustment next and post back. Thanks again.

Kjet.org has lots of good info on diagnosing Kjet fuel injection. Its nothing like the fuel injection on cars today.

My thought is you need an oxygen sensor for the jetronic to work properly. With no oxgen sensor the control unit will think your fuel mixture is lean and increase the fuel pressure via the frequency valve. Your are probably running a really rich mixture once the car warms up. It has no diagnostic system.

Rough idle with kjet is often caused by vacuum leaks.

I would not mess with the mixture adjustment on the fuel/air unit until you have fixed everything else. It is only a rough adjustment that does not normally ever need to be adjusted.

Loved my 240 Turbo. Wish it hadn't rusted out. I still have a 245 turbo but its a 93 with a 940 turbo transplant.

Right - all good points. No obvious vacuum leaks but I need to do a more thorough inspection. O2 sensor port is currently occupied by a (very) rusted bolt; will need to get that out at which point I'll get an O2 sensor in and see if the Lambda Sond does in fact work.

Car running reasonably well at this point - idles fine on startup, stalls after a little bit of driving (or would stall if I didn't left foot brake for the first few miles) and then idles fine again (although with obvious missing) once fully warmed up. More info when available.

Woops...TYPO
3MM Allen Wrench

Hello back,

It might be as you say a mixture or excessive air issue that comes and goes and now is worse.

I would start with the accordion hose behind the AMM and look for any holes or cracks in it.
It's best to use a bright light stuck up into the center of it. In most cases just a little flexing of the hose will allow light to twinkle at you.
No air is allowed behind the AMM that does not go through it. This includes on controlled vacuum hoes i.e. Cracked!

If you do not have a replacement AMM hose you can get by with liquid electrical tape. Apply several thin layers at a time over an are larger area than the crack.

Adjusting the throttle stop screw is not a good thing to do.
This will move air around the throttle plate and above the flow range of the IAC valve. It will not have the ability to slow down the engine at all.

While you have the hose off, wipe out the bore, top and bottom, of the throttle with carb cleaner on a rag.
Also Check to see if air can be blown through any vacuum those ports coming in from the side while you are in there. One controls fuel pressure while accelerating.
Reset the throttle to a totally closed position with the screw backed all the way off. Then screw the screw back up until it just touches the lever again and then give it only one quarter of a turn more and lock it down.
Forget that screw ever exists for idle adjustments.
It's only a stop to keep the throttle plate from jamming or wedging, under an excessive quick release and the return spring banging it shut.
After getting the above done set check the throttle switch for a click to be heard just as you see the plate wiggle... Not open up! Two screws will allow you to pivot the housing.
You would be wise to check for continuity between the pin. Any change on the meter is what you are looking for when it clicks.
The click tells the computer that you are wanting the engine to come off idle or go into idle mode. The IAC has to be in range of flow and timed with through the computer by this switch.

Not having a plain ole' universal oxygen sensor is not wise. They are only $20.00.
The computer needs to know if the AMM is doing its thing correctly and if the engine is burning fuel correctly. No reading means it's guessing or it will try to get doing its on thing and that still will not be right most of the time.
One big deal it may do is to adjusting timing and trying to play catch up. This is probably there is a lag that can cause rough idle or runningor generally poor performance.
These engines will constantly tune themselves but they need correct information.

If it stays in tune, the gas burn up better and does not dirty the oil as bad. The engine is cleaner longer between oil changes. This is one reason why on today's engines the oil change intervals are farther apart. 3,000 miles is an old school practice unless you are ruthlessly doing nothing but short errands in cold weather and never go out on the highway. 7,500 miles was in the manuals back but even then they wrote disclaimers.

Hope this helps you find something.
If you hangout under a hood long enough, you will find out that a "gremlin neighbor" moved in and is under that hood with you. Luckily, these jokers are real "low rent" squatters, so, it's usually the cheap parts that fixes them.....:-)

Phil

Hi Phil,

I think brickdpeters indicates K-Jet. He says CIS. It is a 1985 Turbo, so other than the (if equipped with) K-Jet tunable and treatable ills, maybe a rotting wire harness bits? Though by now, 31 years on, must have a replaced Volvo OEM factory or a Dave Barton K-Jet wire harness for 1985 Volvo 240 Turbo.

I dunno. I'm unsure.

The oxygen sensor being disconnect is disconcerting a bit, yet not so critical for Turbo 240 with K-Jet. You would have a frequency valve to vary control pressure (increase to lean injector fuel out put?) or, I dunno. Air intake leaks, and so on. Does it pass emissions, if you have emissions inspection

http://www.k-jet.org/

http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-frequently-asked-questions/

http://www.k-jet.org/articles/information/k-jet-debugging-guide/

You can find Bosch K-Jet manuals.

Though look at the ignition system. I dunno the name of them, and am unsure which you may have on Turbo B21.
- The Bosch in-distributor impulse sender reluctor thingy with impulse to amplifier that goes to the coil.
- The Chrysler white cap distributor. Sort of the same.

I'll guess Turbos with K-Jet have Bosch ignition?

I see Massachusetts-state does not require emission testing for your model year 1985 Volvo 240 Turbo.

Though knowing what emission are produced before and after the (if still fitted and functioning) catalytic converter helps.

Hope that helps you.

The Trip Daddys psychobilly and rockabilly rock and / or roll music.
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HI Kitty,

I guess we have been like wire wheels and haven't spoke to each other about our posts in quite awhile.
I guess you could say we rolled or Volvo'ed our way around them. (:-)

I will be the first to admit I know nothing about the turbo models. The big hint for me should have been the B21 engine notation up in the subject bar.
He does mentioning the air valve that's under manifold and them being hard to get too. So that in itself misled me because I thought the air valve on my '78 K- Jet was mounted up on the valve cover.

I thought with the Introduction of the B23 in around '83-'84 made the B21 into the history books.
That is, until they exhausted all the left over shelved parts.
I guess I should chalk up this experience as these turbo cars were always a hybrid experiment with Volvo. It seems they kept the past and borrowed the future where possible.

So my question is now "did they ever go turbo with a 23 or 230 anything?" They use to advertise back then they could blow the doors off some V8's. I fiqure they meant heavily emmissioned, non-injection controlled engines back then.
I'm a total blank in the turbo arena!

I do see an occasional turbo on the side of an engine in the yards. I right after I peer into the hood area, I kiss them off, for not wanting anything from them.
Interior parts I will look into and did take a complete gauge panel out of one for the tachometer or voltmeter.
I forget what all it came with. I may still have the set someplace in the bottom of a box as those items have gotten rare to find.

Anyhow, thanks for the note to me.
I looked at the 240 car review you found. Me personally, I would have left it buried. To many "blue words" that were not necessary to use as a car review. The man definitely lacks some vocabulary talents. The car did better overall because it looked loved by someone.

Phil

Hiya Uncle Phil!

Happy Sat-Your-Day all day long! Hope you and yours are looking forward to some wonderful holiday times.

Welp, sorry about the review. I should have indicated some commentary may be too blue and salty for some. It was more the social commentary and poetics (yes, some use of poetry in there). Though, agree, that the innocent Volvo 240 in the video could be treated with more respect on in the context of what Volvo brings to market to market today. The comment about the what forge produces the alloys that comprise the engine block and cylinder head assembly were undue. I'd been looking at the video and the kitty cat dance on yoo-hoo bube toob as a cheer me up for some weeks. (Also, following the CBS / Paramount v. Axanar legal business. Likes the Star Wars and Star Trek fan films here.)

Sorry to not prefect the link to the video for those with more gentle and civil sensibilities.

My reply post was for both brickdpeters and yourself.

I'd not ever owned a Turbo anything, yet futzed with them for tune and motors mounts for others that owned one, or in the instance I was a paid shade-tree wrench turning person. (Not certified for auto mechanic anything here.)

I'd wanted a Volvo Turbo with manual transmission, and yet, in time by the late 1980s and early 1990s, the issues, getting them smogged in CA-state when I was there as you'd have to replace the big catalytic converter on the early 240 Turbos (wanted a 1984 242 Turbo), never being able to afford one or care for one, and they always seemed abused, well, that's about it. When the Volvo Turbo became more civil with better controlled emission with the LH-Jet / EZK control, I already shared your notion that nifty to look at, test drive, ride in, and see in salvage yards. But I'd never own one. I drive like a little owld man, since high school with the 1975 244 DL and M40 (loved the B20 with K-Jet).

But in not wanting to mis direct any response to brickdpeters questions, hopefully we can help brickdpeters solve his problems here.

And everyone enjoy some excellent eggnog holidays! Though the Prairie Farms regular Eggnog is utterly nasty. All candy corn tasting with even more corn syrup this year.

Uncle Phil, than you!

Happy Holidayze!!!!

Your Cousin' Brucie. (Like the NYC ABC Radio Dee Jay in the 60s & 70s.)
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