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gearbox parts 1800 1974

Hello

I have an M410 gearbox in my 122 and i was wondering where i could get synchro rings and other internal parts for this box

Thanks in advance
David








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    gearbox parts 1800 1974

    Thanks Eric

    I might make a list of parts i will need and purchase from you the dogs gaskets and used synchros

    Any idea of a ballpark figure for those bits i would need

    Regards
    David








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      gearbox parts 1800 1974

      Hello David,

      Here is the list of parts that we used to overhaul the 4 speed section of the most recent M410 and cost $405.00. We didn't have to change his synchros, shift dogs or shift dog springs, he just had noisy bearings.


      1 Top cover gasket, OE
      1 Rear housing gasket, M410, OE
      1 Bell housing gasket, M400/M410
      1 Front seal housing gasket, M400/M410
      4 O-ring, front seal housing bolt
      1 Input shaft seal, OE
      1 Input shaft caged needle bearing, M400/M410, OE
      1 Front countershaft bearing cone/cup, M400/M410
      1 Rear countershaft bearing cone/cup, M400/M410
      1 Front mainshaft bearing, M400/M410
      1 Rear mainshaft bearing, M400/M410

      We also replaced all the o-rings, gaskets and seals on the overdrive at the same time and those parts cost $65.00. All of the O/D bearings were in good condition so that saved him over $200.00.



      --
      Eric
      Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
      Torrance, CA 90502
      hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com








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        M400/M410 synchros 1800 1974

        OMG,

        8 M400/M410 BRAND NEW synchros walked through my door today.

        And they cost me dearly.

        Anyone want a set?

        Bear in mind at 1 point Volvo was getting over $100.00 EACH for M40/M41 synchros.

        --
        Eric
        Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
        Torrance, CA 90502








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    gearbox parts 1800 1974

    Hello,

    I usually have all the available new parts in stock for an M400/M410. I even have some parts that aren't available new from any other sources.

    Unfortunately, new M400/M410 synchros have been NLA for a long time.

    Every once in a while a single or pair of synchros will show up on ebay.

    Strange that you would post today as we started rebuilding or as near as we can get to rebuilding an M410 today.

    We are changing the following new parts for the 4 speed section:

    Front and rear mainshaft bearings
    Caged needle bearing inside input shaft
    Front and rear cluster shaft bearings
    All gaskets and seals

    Additional new parts that are available if needed:

    Long and short shift dogs
    Shift dog springs.
    Reverse light switch

    FYI, the front bellhousing gasket and the front seal retainer gasket were discontinued by Volvo, but I had copies professionally made with the correct thickness gasket paper. These are NOT traced and hand cut copies.

    Fortunately the current M410 transmission did not need synchros as they were in very good condition, just noisy mainshaft bearings.

    If needed I do have some good used synchros.
    --
    Eric
    Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
    Torrance, CA 90502
    hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com








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      gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

      hi planet- you seem to be very knowledgeable on the m40 trans. the key with working with my model a 5 speed m47 92 245 is anticipating inevitable common breakdowns and thinking out an alternative plan b when the first plan craps. the m47 so far works normally and shifts ok. during long drives it gets a little stiff shifting and feels tighter shifting. cant find anyone experienced, knowledgeable and not a shyster to rebuild an m47.also cant find a used but good m47 in yards here . these guys are like finding a typewriter repairman. gears make no noise. suspect gearshaft bearings are getting worn. oil level ok. dealer says he has them but wants billions. use car every day around town but hesitant to use it on long trips. dont want to be marooned in stinking creek surrounded by clip joints. what think you? thanks tons oldduke








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        gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

        From the parts supply aspect, yes I do know quit a bit about M40/M41 and the M400/M410 and to some extent the M45/M46/M47 transmissions, but the hands on rebuilding expertise belongs to my brother who regularly rebuilds our manual transmissions.

        And of all of those, the M47 is the one we have no direct experience rebuilding.

        I do know that an M47 has mostly M46 parts, but of course there are differences. And the availability of M45/M46 parts is limited too. Synchros are NLA from Volvo and can't be easily had from any of my sources and the M47 uses 5 of them!

        I also know a special tool is required to safely remove the rear housing or bearing on an M47 and we don't have that tool yet. However, my brother is quite adept at fabricating tools on the rare occasions we are need of one.





        --
        Eric
        Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
        Torrance, CA 90502
        hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com








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          gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

          hi planet- thanks for the info. strange that a trans like the m47 which i think was long produced and very common is tough to find in the junkyard and the parts are hard to find. any further thoughts? thanks tons oldduke








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            gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

            Hiya Uncle Old Duke,

            The M47 is a Volvo-designed gearbox, specific to (normally) N/A four cylinder overhead cam redblocks. Normally aspired (not turbo) save for the few with steel case. Volvo may have built it also. I do not see Bork and Beck in the literature or on any housing.

            The M47 is a frail beast. Glass gears and a flexing aluminum housing. Third gear gets it worse for housing flex under load, yet a good wind up gear, yes? Shift her gently, keep the clean (see vvpete and his avocation of synthetic Volvo gearbox oil) lubricant, keep and eye on that clutch cable adjustment for proper slack (free play), and keep the foot off the clutch when parked at stop lights and signs. Depress when changing gears only. Unless a steel-case M47 (usually black), and then turbo redblock or quattrovalve B234 is okay, so I'd seen.

            One could wear the five forward gear synchros normally or perhaps double clutch a bit to keep the wear off the synchros and more wear on the T/O arm and related articulating components. Proper lube makes a longevity difference.

            I'll keep my three M47s synthetic lube overfilled. One can find 240s and 740s on craigslist and elsewhere with an M47 that are cheaper than a replacement new and even used M47. Keep and eye-bulb out.

            Hope your speedo / odo issue is okay.

            cheers,

            Evil Twin Brewing Citra Sunshine Slacker (summer ales on clearance in the eggnog season at Lukas Liquors on booze city StL) (needs eggnog) this morning.

            We despise prepositional phrases. Speak / Write Finnish!
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              gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

              hi kitty g- some followups. my m47 has not crapped yet. according to the owners manual, it calls for ford/dexron atf. its been in there since at least 2011 when i acquired it. fluid looks in good condition does not leak and have not had to add any. all clutch diagrams of the clutch in the 240 with m47 as well as the ipd and fcp pictures depict a diaghram style not a borg and beck style clutch. put borg and beck lever/centrifugal assist clutches in dodges back in the war. they exert more clamping pressure than a diaphgram style which is probably why they are put in the 240 volvo to reduce pedal pressure on the leg and strain on the clutch cable. by the way kit , thinking of dumping the atf oil in the m47 and replacing it with full synthetic- what think you and which brand would you use . would you use synthetic atf or synthetic 10-30 in the trans? the old worry about synthetic earl is causing leaks in old machinery used to conventional. uncle moe told me the only thing good about synthetic is the trans shifts gears more easily. thanks tons oldduke








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                gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

                Hiya Uncle Old Duke!

                Oooop, never put Dexron in an M47 or 240 power steering. Bad for Volvo M47 and bad for 240 power steering racks!

                The Volvo owner manual and factory service green doc state Ford "Type F" You may also see "Type F/G" and "Type G" - each being progressively heavier lube. Ford "Type F" is relatively primitive lube without the friction modifiers to make it slippery. Like with Dexron and Mercon.

                If you search for vvpete on the brickboard and turbobricks, he lays it all out as to the actual spec Volvo gear lube for M47. There is some variance between earlier M46 and later M46 so I've read.

                I'd leave it to Planetman and others as for sourcing replacement syncros and other parts for M47 and other Volvo gear boxes. Planteman has the resources and, like he write, his brother has the talent to rebuild gear boxes. We hope and pray always we can source the critical parts for a successful gear box rehab every time.

                Yep, my mistake. For some reason, I though Volvo used Bork and Beck gear boxes. Nope. Though am unsure.

                Welp, vvpete, for M47, states using the Volvo gear lube part number 1161645. It is a full synthetic manual transmission gearbox lube specific for Volvo M47, M56, and later. I've read for M46, also. Though others argue using the Ford "Type F" in M46 as the overdrive uses hydraulic pressure from the small small piston pump, driven on shaft eccentric at the bottom of the overdrive, to engage the unit. The over drive uses some serious hydraulic PSI to do so.

                Else, your best bet, as is advocated here and elsewhere, is the Redline MTL gear box lube. Go to the www.redline.com site and use the product picker tool.

                vvpete also wrote that Redline is perhaps the second best choice, yet depending on how many miles and how hard you drive it, you may want to check and replace every 30k-50k miles. I'm unsure the change interval he recommends. Though vvpete does say that Redline will turn brown, indicating breakdown, in time.

                I have Redline in one gear box and Amsoil SuperShift ARTQT the another two. Prior owners on these three 240s I drained the factory oil and replaced it with who knows. (Fortunately NOT Dexron, as that is a fast way to a quick M4x Volvo gear box death.)

                Even with clean oil, if old, gear box oil, using the Redline (or the Amsoil), the transmissions are easy to shift and run very cool. It used to be with the three M46 transmission, they'd get so hot, as did the M47s, the heat would run up the gear shift lever on even mild temp days. Using synthetic allows them run cool by a huge gradient. If in the Summertime, it is the radiating road heat that comes up the gear shift lever if at all.

                When I drained the M47II gearbox oil on the 1992 wee green beastie in like 2008, soon after buying it, the fluid was dark brown and well burnt. I gear tooth piece cam out with LOTS of silver. The fill and drain plug were FULL of silver bits. What worried me. I cleaned out the plugs, and, with it raised on the North American passenger side, I sprayed the transmission with brake parts cleaner using the red straw and sprayed through the fill hole in bursts until the drain hole came clean of waste bits. Left it to dry a day or so. Than swapped raised side for an overfill of the Amsoil. The transmission is quiet with no noise in any gear like when I bought it. Sometimes hard to shift into first gear. The synchros feel thin. A prior owner installed a high-force clamp clutch and the noisy iPd or some sort of Volvo 240 Turbo exhaust. I mean to eventually put in a front resonator or glass pack something to quiet the exhaust down, eventually.

                Again, No Dexron anything in 240 manual transmission and power steering.

                Dexron III (and newer, as Dexron is backwards compatible, though I wonder) for rear wheel drive Volvo auto transmission.

                Unless you have a BW55 or earlier as these take Ford "Type F", iirc.

                Synthetic lube is always an improvement. Synthetic can present multiple characteristics that can cross called for specifications by a thing. The Amsoil SuperShift indicates support of Ford "Type F" and Alison C-4 transmission. Alison C-4 is more Dexron-like with friction modifiers, yet is not Dexron.

                Search and read up on the Volvo 240 drain and fill procedure well treated here on this forum. Use the overfill method. Ensure the fill plug unscrews first before draing. Some will use a new copper or one of the newer grey sealing crush washers. Clean the conical magnet loads of carbon steel bits in one or both of the plugs. (Brake parts cleaner and a cloth helps.)

                Hope that helps.

                MacDuffed.
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                  gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

                  hi kitty g- always enjoy reading your messages not only for their intellectual power but also for the detail of your technical knowledge of the 240. so bottom line,for the m47 would you recommend the volvo synthetic trans oil or another synthetic since i want tokeep the m47 alive. figure the volvo oil will cost a mortgage. thanks for the warning on dexron. m47has ford atf in it now. it is red and smells like grapefruit juice. btw dont think borg and beck ever made manual gearboxes. they produced a good clutch for fords and dodges the old 3 lever centrifugally assisted type. the borg had more clamping pressure than the diaphragm types which i have seen on all volvos. never saw a borg and beck for a volvo. were you thinking of borg warner which made some manual boxes in the old days. thanks tons oldduke








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                    gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

                    Happy Friday Uncle Old Duke,

                    Hope you and Mrs. Old Duke and the family and your and the pets and Volvos are all warm and sunny in warm and sunny Florida. It is Friday so grapefruit and win seltzer spritzers on on the ocean-overlooking veranda? (I'll have 8 or 10, please!) Well, if you're on the ocean. (I'm ocean kinda scares me.)

                    Thank you kindly for the kind words. Intellectual power. I can push the Volvo 240 around with my head bumping the rear bumper forward to the grocery store. I'm not an 240 expert though. I'll do my best. I'll defer such praise to others.

                    So long as my bombast-ic remains in check.

                    Note the Volvo synthetic gear lube is like 15$ per liter bottle.

                    It is Volvo PN 1161645. What vvpete advocates. vvpete also indicates it is wholly superior to the Redline and Amsoil offerings as the Volvo oil rates higher in certifications or something. vvpete writes that he believes the oil can remain in the gear box for life. (Yet in all Volvos I'd own, the gear box and differential fluid was not the freshest and sometimes the nastiest.)

                    Tasca is like 16-17$

                    http://www.tascaparts.com/oe-volvo/1161645

                    Image of the bottle:



                    Redline MTL is what most other recommend for manual transmission lubricant.
                    https://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=7

                    What I have in one gear box.

                    Use the application selector to choose year, make, and model. You get info. Uses a MTL 75W80 GL-4 Gear Oil for M47:

                    https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=45

                    Yet you do replace it on occasion.

                    In two others I have the Amsoil SuperShift. Run cool and shifts fine. Well, on the green 1992 240, when all the silver came out of the brown oil with the gear tooth piece, well. Them synchros are thin. A little stiff in colder temps like now. The li'l red 1990 240 wagon shift just fine. Before the Amsoil, the second synchro would be notchy and gear-grinded sort of often. No more. Well, very rarely. Yet I'm all gentle with it.

                    Yeah, Bork and Beck. Nope. All Volvo gear box designed and built gear boxes. yep, confused with Borg Warner. (Yet is Borg and Beck have anything to do with Borg Warner? I dunno.)

                    Happy Friday.

                    KEXP Seattle Streaming Radio Boyeeeee.
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                    gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

                    I've seen Borg & Beck clutches on 122 models - and they probably came on 544's before that. Of course BW made the automatic for Volvos up to the BW55 in pre-auto o'drive 240's. Transmission sharing by dedicated tranny manufacturers was/is more common among US auto makers---BW T10 (GM, Ford, Studebaker, AMC) 4-speed. Later the T5 five-speed. Do you remember the Pont-a-Mouson (spelling?) French made 4-speed that Chrysler offered in the '50's/'60's? -- Dave








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                      gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

                      hi heck - did not know volvos from that far back. was the borg and beck clutch in that volvo model a 3 lever centrifugal assist or a diaphragm type like in the 240? thanks ton oldduke








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            gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

            AFAIK, most of the post 1986 US market Volvos came with automatics.

            I had a customer who special ordered a 745 with an M47 and because of a dock strike, had to wait an extra 6 months to get his car. Unfortunately, the car was badly wrecked by the grandson of the original owner. Fortunately, the kid wasn't badly hurt, but the car was totaled.

            --
            Eric
            Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
            Torrance, CA 90502








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        gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

        Hi Duke,

        Seems I heard on the radio or somewhere that Donald Trump had plans for draining Stinking Creek. I'm not sure who he'll have pay for it, but I'm guessing it wont be you.

        I rebuilt a transmission in a '55 IHC farm tractor this fall that needed 7 or 8 bearings. I was able to get every one of them as either old stock on EBay or through a bearing supply, and the bill came out to less than 25% of what International wanted for them. They were all either Timken or SKF, and I'll never buy from a dealer again if I can help it.

        You can cross reference them either by the stock number that's on the bearing or by dimensions, OD, ID, and thickness. From what I can see, when someone designs a mechanical component they go to the catalogues and pick a stock bearing. I think there are very few that are application specific.

        Peter








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          gearbox parts what about m47s 1800 1974

          hello maple- not surprised that these bearings are available direct from timken and are not product specific. but trans shaft bearings would have very specific dimensions and tolerances along with high strength requirements due to the loads they have to sustain. timken is the standard. installed one of them years ago in an 88 buick (wheel bearing). the timken part was twice the chinese model. that bearing has still not crapped out. thanks tons oldduke







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