Our 93 240 wagon recently stopped starting. It happened suddenly. When I turn the key in the ignition there is a click and the engine might crank one time and then stop. It sounds like a dead battery, but all the electrical systems work fine.
But then I noticed that if I held the key in the start position for maybe two or three more seconds, the engine might crank again once or twice. Finally, it usually starts. But only usually.
I have it in a garage now, but the mechanic is unable to find where there is an electrical problem and he said the starter works fine. Any thoughts?

Slowly over several years the problem revealed itself.

Starting in the summer of 2010, every so often, I would turn the key to start the car ('87 245) and there would be a small click then nothing. If I turned the key again it would trigger the starter and start the car. I thought that it was the solenoid, since it was the original starter. But it was not consistant so I did nothing. It never got worse and whenever this occured it always started on the second turn of the key.

5 years later in the spring, it wouldn't start after the second turn or even several turns of the key.
I figured well the solenoid finally was done. I "jumped" the starter with a screwdriver and got the car started.

Bought a rebuilt starter, changed it out, turned the key...nothing.
Re-checked the wires to the new starter, tried the key again and the started turned barely and then nothing. I jiggled the key and got it to do that again.

Slapped myself on the forehead, realizing that it probably wasn't the starter after all but The Ignition Switch. I replaced the switch with a working one from my other car and it started first time.

You most likely need a new ignition switch.

I got one from these guys Used $40...IF you can find a new one - they are like $100.

http://www.voluparts.com/

Good starter story. Different symptom description from OP's.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore


The secret of a good sermon is to have a good beginning and a good ending; and to have the two as close together as possible. - George Burns

I recently had something like that happen to a starter. A decent story here!

The wife was out and called and said it would just click. She had tries it several times and was a short distance away from the house. Getting a tow was her last choice as it seems you wait a long time before they come. In others words.... She Whined!

I knew the battery system was is great condition as I put in a new battery not long ago.
Since this was my newest car with 257k on it, I did not know the true health of the starter motor. Meaning, how hard the starter had been used or abused over the years by previous owners.

Sue enough I got there with a jumper wire from the firewall wire to the battery. It would just click and click and click but the starter motor would not turn over.
Triple AAA came and tried the key ...no go!

He decided to to use a 1500 ampere jump start battery on top of my good battery. That like stacking three times the amperage at the same voltage. I guess it might do something I said to him.
He hit the key three more times and it whirred over. No tow now, so no charge against the number of tows on the account this way as he gave us nothing to sign. However that works.

Now from my stand point something is wrong with that starter. Even though after she got it home, she started it two more times in the garage with the key.

I immediately took into getting that starter out. I tore it down and saw nothing more or less than I expected to see. A brush type motor with brushes only worn down about half their length. All the gunk inside was saying this was in line with what an original starter should have. This thing is working!

Here is where digging a little deeper pays off. The solenoid has a plunger that pulls in the motor drive gear and pushes a copper contact plate inside against the two cable bolts bottoms inside.
This makes the motor turn.
This contact plate is spring loaded on a pin so it can hit those bolts flat and seat down for a solid transfer of current.
After playing with the plunger, for quite a bit, I realize that the plunger was not moving any farther in that it took to make a complete circuit.
The plunger core bottomed out in the solenoid housing, exactly where it should. It did not move farther in past after the circuit closing.
The plunger rod inside the steel core was not pushing the rod holding contact plate that's in the solenoid housing deep enough. No extra give.

To fix this I had two choices.
One, Shave the bottom of the core body or Two, Cut the weld on other slotted rod that pulls the drive gear and push it inward and tack it back with a weld just like factory.
Cutting the weld on Slotted rod and slide it deeper into steel core would have been the best choice.
Moving it back at least .060 or up to .100 would have made it a lot better modification. I limit it due to the slot pulling on the bendix drive units arm made of plastic. I think the slot has plenty of play to move it.

My Problem was wrong house, no welder and no lathe available to me. A machinist out of water and a point of being stuck with buying a new solenoid for $60+ or a used complete starter pulled for me @ $45! Probably in the same condition and put it all back together. Yucks on another dirty starter on the shelf. I have three at the other house!

The first choice gave me about .030+ extra but the internal cone angle bottoms it out again. An angle grinder buzzed it off as square as possible but the cone angle was the big headache.

It has started many, many times in the last several weeks since, without any hint of any problem.
The .030+ gave me back reliability for now.

I suggest you taking the solenoid out or off the starter by itself and check out the plunger play after the contacts make up.
I bet there are many of the starters with "a dead spot starting problem" are not the brushes but probably a solenoid stroke distance issue. Internal Rods are not tapping on each other enough.

I think that is what happened when AAA hit it with even more current than three engines could ever use, it jumped a gap inside from the copper bar to the contact pads on the battery cable bolts.
It may have burned away a burr from previous arcings of a "not enough spring pressure" on the contact holding the plate.

Have your mechcanic chew on the idea.

Phil

Phil, you'd better replace the battery cable(s) or your wife is gonna be stuck with a clicker again.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

As told by G.Downs III:

After years of hiding the fact that the love is gone, the last child moved out of the house and Mom and Dad announced they are getting a divorce.
The kids are distraught and hired a marriage counselor as a last resort at keeping the parents together. The counselor works for hours, tries all of his methods, but the couple still won't even talk to each other.

Finally, the counselor goes over to a closet, brings out a beautiful upright Bass, and begins to play.

After a few moments, the couple starts talking.

They discover that they're not actually that far apart and decide to give their marriage another try.

The kids are amazed and ask the counselor how he managed to do it.

He replies, "I've never seen anyone who wouldn't talk during a bass solo."

And for that, the counselor gets $200/hr, and doesn't have to join the musicians' union....

Hi Art,

When I was working on the car I kept my eye out for corrosion on the solenoid end and everything looked very normal. This car still has a good rubber boot that fitted nicely like factory made. Same for the upper end at the battery.
The battery is from one of my other cars and is only two years old.
I surmise the original PO is having an issue, as you describe to us, including a bad battery or possibly CB's ignition switch after a long period of times.

This car is from David Samuels, The Wagonmiester.
As you know he is a refurbisher and not just a person with a shining rag. He is THE somebody, that knows somebody with equally professional resources.
Originally the car came from an charity auction but was mistreated for a while.
As he said on his web site, the car was dirty from being a dog car and the paint was scuzzy as if washing it must have been a sin! He saw it for being "a diamond in the rough" and saved the car.

Now I know you are the Master at this troubleshooting stuff because you live on the East coast and have seen things that I can only imagine in my worst nightmares.
I will heed your advice and double check them visually. I will also check for voltage with a voltage resistance procedure applied by my voltmeter on both cables.
I'm always yapping about bad grounds, biting people in the butt, so your point is well taken to heart.

Of my five Volvo cars I own since 1978, this is the first car that I have ever had not turn over. Having spares JY starters as I do, concedes that my day was coming.
I paid dearly to make up for it! That is having to do the job while laying on the floor and not having the car up on my car lift at my other house. I also had to buy a 15" long extension bar for that Sven bolt.

As far as the solenoid having stroke issues, I got the clue to check it out from a starter/alternator rebuilder and store owner.
He showed me how he tests them and condemns them on stroke distance past the contact moment.
I failed to bring the piston with me as he would have know more.
I took only the solenoid coil to ask if it's possible to open them up. He recommended using a lathe, of course, to roll the crimp back on the stud cap.
Luckily for me, in a perverse way, that not having the piston he didn't know exactly what solenoid to sell me for $60.

I will be digging out my spares and checking the solenoids. Modifying them to have more float for the contact bar. It's German and IMO the tolerance dimensions on the rod lengths location are too close in one direction when the design allows more adjustment of the assembly components.

You know, an Engineers good work, going lost in the details of "happen stance!" **** Happens

Phil

Hi Phil,

The important clue from the OP was "When I turn the key in the ignition there is a click and the engine might crank one time and then stop. It sounds like a dead battery, but all the electrical systems work fine. "

This, to me, means slow cranking and cranking drop-out. Not failure of the solenoid to engage the armature contacts. Not failure of the key switch to engage the solenoid.

But about YOUR car... You said "I knew the battery system was is great condition as I put in a new battery not long ago." I think that's a leap of faith, not knowledge.

You said "He decided to to use a 1500 ampere jump start battery on top of my good battery. That like stacking three times the amperage at the same voltage." I think it doesn't matter a lick what the CCA rating is of the battery used to get your car started if the battery in it was indeed in great condition. Especially not in Southern California.

However, assuming you're correct about the battery being fully charged at the time, the use of jumper cables can often disturb the faulty connection between the terminals and the battery posts, the cable and the terminals, etc.

When next it happens, if you don't peel back and inspect those cable ends, take your screwdriver and bypass all of the solenoid primary circuit (key switch, wiring, connectors) shorting between terminal 30 and 50. Being right there, you can also tell by sound and feel whether the solenoid's plunger is indeed traveling to its limit.

If you have a test light or meter with you, that would be the time to measure the voltage at the solenoid stud itself, and the braided wire going into the brush pack. See where the voltage drop is. Check backward at every metal-to-metal interface in the solenoid's secondary circuit (the heavy contact circuit).

Dave Samuels and I share a long history of conversation off list. I would buy a car from him sight unseen.

--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Three men were sitting together bragging about how they had given their new
wives duties.

The first man had married a woman from Utah,
and bragged that he had told his wife she was going to do
all the dishes and house cleaning that needed done at
their house. He said that it took a couple days but on
the third day he came home to a clean house and the
dishes were all washed and put away.

The second man had married a woman from Maine.
He bragged that he had given his wife orders that she was
to do all the cleaning, dishes, and the cooking. He
told them that the first day he didn't see any
results, but the next day it was better. By the third
day, his house was clean, the dishes were
done, and he had a huge dinner on the table.


The third man had married a girl from Maryland.
He boasted that he told her that her duties were to keep
the house cleaned, dishes washed, lawn mowed, laundry
washed and hot meals on the table for every meal. He
said the first day he didn't see anything, the second
day he didn't see anything, but by the third day
most of the swelling had gone down and he could see a
little out of his left eye, enough to fix himself a
bite to eat, load the dishwasher, and telephone a
landscaper.

Have your mechanic check for corrosion in the battery cables. Sometimes it is hidden under the sheathing or inside the terminals. Finally have the voltage at the starter terminals checked during cranking.

Now if it "locks up" when cranking, have him try cranking with the ignition coil disconnected to see if the spark is igniting the mixture at the wrong time. If it is, it will crank smoothly and rapidly (but of course, not start) with the coil disconnected.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Never slap a man who's chewing tobacco.

Thanks, Art. I have passed this on to my mechanic. Hopefully he will be able to come up with something.