posted by
someone claiming to be cdcrawford
on
Tue Sep 19 21:32 CST 2017 [ RELATED]
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A co-worker's brother-in-law had an '83 244 that he was literally giving away for the cost of the DMV fees. The car needed brakes, a timing belt, a tune-up and was not running due to a bad AMM. Nice B23F+M46 combo, metallic blue with blue vinyl seats. "Only" 220,000 miles.
So, I bit the bullet and brought her home. I put in a used but tested AMM from the salvage yard ($50 vs over $300 for a reman!), new Bosch cap and rotor, Bougicord wires, NGK plugs and Mann filters. New timing belt, tensioner, and Hepu Waterpump. Replaced all of the belts and hoses, cleaned the flame trap and throttle body, and drained/replaced all of the fluids.
New pads and rotors up front, new pads in the back, a new MC and new lines. The MC and lines were not strictly necessary but if they were not original to the car then they were very old looking, and I am not in a hurry to die. ;-)
So, the car runs nicely now. Fires right up. Idles smoothly. Passed the mandatory smog test that is required here when title changes hands with flying colors.
But, it is GOD AWFUL SLOW. I went back and re-did the timing belt thinking that it was off a tooth and this made no difference at all.
I have an '84 with the same engine and tranny combo and while it is not "fast", it will run up to 60 in about 12 seconds, even with 430K on the original engine. This one takes, according to the stop watch on my cell phone, over 17 seconds to make the 0-60 run. It also requires a "downshift" from 4+OD to straight 4th gear to hold highway speeds (65-70) on grades, whereas my '84 does not.
I checked the compression after driving for about 30 minutes. I got 185-190-195-190. For comparison, I checked the '84 (with almost twice the mileage) and got 210-205-215-200.
Granted, those are not huge differences, but it did make me go "hmmm." I know some B23F's ran flat top pistons while others had dished pistons, and I seem to recall the compression ratios were different.
But 5 seconds slower to 60? That just can't be right. I am not sure where to look first.
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Ever figure this out?
I have had a similar issue with my 93 245.
Mine just lost power under load. Turned out that my air box thermostat was stuck open. Let in all the hot air from exhaust heater hose through the intake. That $10 item killed my expensive MAF.
Mine does 0-60 in 15-19 seconds depending on the wind.
Thank goodness for my lead foot and steady nerves.
Thinking of hollowing out my cat. Maybe it's clogged. CT has >25 year emissions exemption.
Should we set up a stock 240 drag race event?
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Hello,
I'm hoping we talking about a car that's using a LH system and not a K-Jet system. I know that the K-Jet was dropped before 84 and I get fuzzy before that. The K-Jet Turbo was held over from around late 82. I know this cause I have been bit before for not knowing. The clank in that armor is depending what country.
The first thing that come to mind under acceleration is a richer mixture is needed and that also means volume.
On the LH, that would be the vacuum controlled fuel pressure regulators, not shut down on returning fuel to the tank.
I do not know what the 83 has as a FPR but I suspect it's close to the 84 year one. This might be worth researching, if there has not been an upgrade made between them.
The 84 model is different than the later cars and the later cars ran better but there were improvements.
With that said the B230 does breathe differently than a B23, so that tells me they had fueling issues as I cannot see great differences mechanically.
The injectors orifices could vary too between 83-84 and for sure the ECU's of LH 1.0 over 2.0 and the 85's moving towards LH 2.4 refinements.
The B23 appears to me to be a more of a low end torque motor. I feel it might work better in a small pickup truck of about the same weight as the sedan or less.
The motor is Not as quick to rev up but I'm judging this with out knowing the ratios between my 84 sedan and a my 86 wagon.
I have to compare those two to my nineties LH sedans still running LH 2.4's injection.
These year cars were built heavier like tanks and are called tanks by many owners. The car rides solid because of it and their larger steering wheels help with those made without power steering.
Swedish people are closer to being bigger like Americans. Volvo's are truly the Swedish family and nicknamed "A Tractor" car and built against their Moose and Winters. The climate and mountains are a major reason that their A/C's were under capacity when compared to stateside units driven by V-8's.
So putting it this way, having a speedster, is not in its character when aligned with a safety consensus in the homeland or like minded European families world wide back then.
Remember Ford made the Granada's with a carbureted 302 cid, glitzy trim and that's about all!
If you find One, not in a club, still running, it is probably faster, not getting 27 MPG but smoking and leaking!
You gotta cut the cars some slack for their longevity!
Phil
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How did the spark plugs look when you removed them? I just pulled the plugs from a '92 than were badly worn - but clean.
How did the oil look?
We had a '90 744 TI(150K) that had three cylinders with poor compression - after 30K with 3333K oil changes (3333K so that 10K services lined up) the compression came up in those cylinders.
Your car's computer may have accommodated older components and may need time to adapt to the new parts.
I have also had a tune-up sharpen up a bit after a thousand miles or so in older cars.
Drive the car for a couple of thousand miles or so and check it again before you throw more parts at it.
If the results are the same then, have an experienced Volvo tech look at it.
One thing that you might do, is to unplug any connectors that you can, clean them, add dielectric grease, and zip tie any that you can. I did one per week so that I know where to look if there was a problem.
Cleaning grounds is a good idea also.
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posted by
someone claiming to be cdcrawford
on
Wed Sep 20 13:08 CST 2017 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for all of the good ideas.
I discovered something this morning that I had not noticed before: rowing up through the gears it will not rev over about 4,200-4,300 rpm. In my driveway, in neutral, it hits 5,000 but doesn't sound quite right.
This car has the crappy Chrysler ignition and I wonder if the timing is not advancing correctly. How do I check this while driving?
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Me, I wouldn't rev a motor with 220k on it up to 5k very often...
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Bert, I guess I have a lot more faith in the toughness of the redblock. My 1980 245 M46 has seen and sees redline on a regular basis - now with 300k on the clock. I've owned it since 124k and it's had an oil change every 5k or so with Castrol GTX since then. It shows oil pressure immediately on start up - no rod clatter or any other untoward noises (except for the obvious lack of effective hushers). The ability to really use the motor to full advantage is one of the reasons I've stuck with (not exclusively) Volvos these past 43 years. -- Dave
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I use to own an 83 sedan. Electronic advance distributor. I think it's set at 12 degree. Change your fuel filter and pressure regulator and run a bottle of Techron.into the gasoline. Not a fast take off car. Respect the mileage as she's an oldgirl. On my 740 I replaced all my injectors for $25 each. Same cost as rebuilding them. Given the miles, I would think I along the fuel supply
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I use to own an 83 sedan. Electronic advance distributor. I think it's set at 12 degree. Change your fuel filter and pressure regulator and run a bottle of Techron.into the gasoline. Not a fast take off car. Respect the mileage as she's an oldgirl. On my 740 I replaced all my injectors for $25 each. Same cost as rebuilding them. Given the miles, I would think I along the fuel supply
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You should be able to run right up to the redline of 6500 rpm in the lower gears. As you mention -- a check of the timing/advance is in order. -- Dave
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Have you checked for a clogged catalyst?
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this is a good point often missed from 4dv8- stuffed cats are a real problem in older high mileage tanks. i had a severe slowness problem particularly when i warmed up my old sl6 dodge. tried many things. it even defeated a master mechanic of my acquaintenance. uncle moe said to thoroughly check engine breathing particularly the exhaust. noticed hot exhaust pressure out the tailpipe on my hand(gloved) did not change much from idle to fast idle. disconnected the flange where the exhaust pipe connects to the cat and ran it around the block. the old power was back. didnt do it too long as prowling coppers would have been tipped off by the noise.some rookie working for his quota would have hit me with a $500 public nuisance ticket. cleaned out the cats honeycombs which were full of carbon and clogs. problem solved and didnt cost me a thing. dont you like it when the poor guy wins? told my master mechanic and he said he never actually saw such a thing but had heard of it when cats first came out in 74 tech bulletins. regards oldduke
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What size wheels and tires?
Larger diameter will seem objectively slower.
Also I don't remember if there were vast difference between '83 and '84, but I do remember my old '79 with lambda sond did not make much more than 100 ponies, a b230 by comparison at 114 hp seems like a rocket with a decent cam
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I was going to suggest that perhaps the timing belt was off a tooth, but as I read further I saw that you had checked that... and you are sure?
How about ignition timing? I am not familiar with the b23f engines or how sophisticated the ECU is but I would guess they can not adjust the timing on their own as the later b230f engines can.
Randy
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I'm not surprised that you need to downshift going up hills on the highway. That seems "normal" for a stock 200 series of any year.
The loss of power may be due to loss of motor compression. ???
Maybe have the injectors cleaned/balanced. That should make some difference. Plus checking the fuel pressure and fuel delivery system.
Valve settings. Are the valves noisy? Sloppy guides?
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hi cd- mine a 92 245 w/ 3 pedals is the same. runs smooth, good mpg. but is notoriously slow as hell. even with m47 and 3 pedals. so bad that i regularly get cussed and foul hand gestures at stop light launches and acceleration from turns. one crumb even said something about the 245's mutha. from what ive been told by my friends and enemies in the brick culture, the 240s had 2 types of gas 4 cyl engines. mine has dished pistons(non interference ) to avoid a destroyed engine if the timing belt breaks. this is common but slow. however some 240s (ive heard with the turbo charger)got the flat pistons which makes it an interference engine. this model which apparently you have is supposed to be peppier and faster.btw only known cure for the punks who trail you and cuss is a rear mounted oil to road discharge pipe like luke doolan had on his 50 ford coupe in thunder road.you might be too young to remember that . best regards oldduke
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oldduke---your information regarding piston shape is not correct. Yes, the compression ratio in the B21-23-230 is controlled by the piston shape--the combustion chamber being the same NA or turboed -- but the turboed motors have a deeper dish to lower the C.R. to bring it to a level that wont cause detonation under load with boost. The first B21F motors had flat top pistons and relatively high C.R. The B21FT (turbo) had a severely dished piston and a 1930's style 7.5 to 1 ratio. I've read (here) that "E" series motors (sold in Europe?) had a higher compression ratio and hotter cam leading to that version being an interference motor. According to my manuals the B23 in the '80's had lower compression ratios for the standard shift models than with automatic--and also a very long rear axle ratio--3.31 for standard shift -- 3.73 for auto.
Could the OP'ers 1984 have a motor made for an auto (more power)? Or a diff made for auto (better acceleration)?
I used to service a customer's '83 244 w/M46 and always thought it was very slow-puzzling because it ran well. Discovering the axle ratio difference explained that. -- Dave
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thanks heck for the correction. guess i was misinformed. my 92 245 with the m47 has a .80 overdrive fifth and a 3.31 rear gear which gives an economical final drive of 2.65. the pistons are dished. does not have turbo. do the turbo 240s have flat pistons in E models? have had a lot of cars. highest final drive i ever saw was my slantsix feather duster which had a 4 spd od(.73) and a 2.94 axle which gave a final of 2.15(only useful above 40mph on the hwy. glad my 245 is non interference. dont need a busted timing belt toasting the engine. not even sure if rebuilds of this engine are available. dont want a $4k charge either. thanks tons oldduke
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Hi oldduke,
I'm pretty sure if you ever need to take the head off of your '92 you'll see a flat piston top like this. Dished pistons aren't "required" for non-interference, yours with the flat tops is still clear of the valves with the stock cam no matter where the timing.
As to rebuilding motors, that is one reason I'm so enamored of the Volvo. Every motor I've ever had before became an oil burner long before the mileage routinely attained with these 240s. I don't have to "rebuild" any Volvo motors, and at my age I can get all the racing thrills I require just by watching dashcam videos of Mrs. B's grocery getting sped up 4x.
Still, I've never heard anyone report such rude behavior as you've reported at traffic lights. Maybe your third pedal wagon is a conversion with the rear axle ratio unchanged?

--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A hangover is the wrath of grapes.
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hi arty b- hope you didnt get any residual action from irma the cane. barely got by it here in se fla when it hooked a left at the last minute and went up the west coast. marco island near naples got blown to hell and tampa didnt do too well. have learned a chunk about 240s this week. thought and was told dished pistons saved an otherwise interference engine from wrecking if the chain or belt broke and piston came up and bent the open valves and maybe cracked the head. have never had the head off my 245. your picture confirms what you say. think fla drivers are like ny and jersey clutch poppers- bad tempers and rude. have received that described reaction from folks in a rush at stop light launches. being a sensitive guy my feelings are always hurt. so it appears no 240 4 cyl gasser is interference. thanks tons oldduke
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Sure, maybe I'm too insensitive, plus hard of hearing, but I surely know there are impatient people behind the wheel everywhere. Just smile and know you're ahead of them.
In Europe, for example, where the fuel costs more, and cars are sometimes taxed according to their engine's displacement, 240s do have interference engines.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Dancing cheek-to-cheek is really a form of floor play.
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good advice arty b- i surmise the reason for the interference engine in european 240s is better gas miles and more power due to the higher compression. an engineer friend of mine said while those are true, the primary reason for this design was better emissions. what i dont like is how easily one of these engines can be wrecked. thanks tons oldduke
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I've had many interference engines and (fingers crossed as I own one now!) never had one blow a timing belt or even a water pump for that matter. My 240 did blow its water pump, however... Key is to change the belt, tensioner and idler on time!
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oldduke, I don't know if there is such a thing as a turbo "E" version of the redblock. I doubt it would have flat top pistons as that would put the compression ratio upwards of 10:1 - a bit high for a turboed motor. Oldsmobile tried that with the 1962-63 "Jetfire" aluminum 215 V8--the first automobile production turbo motor. They ran over 10:1 and even with very mild boost it required an alcohol injection system to control detonation.
My VolvOldsmobile (NA 215 V8) now has a BW T5 gearbox with a .73 5th gear. It sits in a'93 245 (with original auto 3.73) -- thankfully an '89 245 M47 parts car came my way - now have a more reasonable 3.31 to play with. I've mentioned this project a number of times in the past but have been stalled actually getting it finished. I recently learned of a path to being able to obtain a clear title for this '93 body--given to me by a family friend. That's a BIG incentive to completing it. -- Dave
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