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Got a new splash undercar belly pan 245 1992. Seem to remember someone mentioning stainless steel bolt and washer, etc. McMaster Carr perhaps? Details? Thanks!
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hi,
If you have a Lowes nearby you can find what you need in one of their large hardware drawers. I think they are in the section labeled automotive fasteners. I bought some a while back, they are black oxide w/ built in washer and are sold in packs of two. They look to be exactly the same bolts that IPD has listed.
Hope that helps,
Travis
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Yeah. Volvo dealer sells bolts and washers separately for $7 each. IPD is better. Do the math and go to your nearest hardware store. Did that a couple of months ago.
Belly down.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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And this is NOT a fastener in a high stress situation. I buy grade 5 M6x10 bolts and washers at the hardware store. You could use stainless -- but it's certainly not a necessity.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"You could use stainless -- but it's certainly not a necessity. "
Especially not in that nice salt-free place you live.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -Robert A. Heinlein
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hell Art, I wouldn't drive the car in that stuff even if I didn't have enough sense to not live in a nice salt free place.....
(grin)
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I guess to have that much sense you just might have to be born with it. :)
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Drive-In banks were established so most of the cars today could see their real owners. (E. Joseph Cossman)
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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They are metric M6 1.0 thread pitch around 20 mm long. Need seven.
Same size and pitch as the bolts to secure the AMM / MAF to the bracket or the bolt that secure the outer fender to the inner fender.
Some will use flange head hex bolts. Some will add fender washer to distribute clamping force.
Art's suggestion here for stainless hex head bolts, if he were talking to me, not sure what that means:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#93635a212/=17mcobc
In this thread here:
Splash Pan Bolts needed 200
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1645394/220/240/260/280/splash_pan_bolts_needed.html
Many threads found using the seemingly now working search.
Hope that helps.
Duffed.
--
Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.  
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"I'll guess Art could write all of this in like three sentences."
Yes, if I were talking to you. They'd be (1) verify 12V at right fuse contact with pedal down, (2) remove knee bolster, drop orange can, check 12V at input (blue-red) and at outputs (yellow, yellow-gray, brown-black). Then I'd post the wiring diagram. I'd hope for the orange can, because changing that switch on the pedal is for young folks. And (3) for the benefit of others, new topic, new thread.
This will teach me something if it is the reason for the ABS lamp.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
My dog is worried about the economy because Alpo is up to $3.00 a can.
That's almost $21.00 in dog money.
-Joe Weinstein
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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hi arty b- completed the tests you told me to do- here are the facts. checked the # 7 fuse for continuity- ok . using multimeter set at 20vdc and connected the clips to right side fuse terminal and grounded bolt, showed 12.04 vdc, engine was idling. then stepped on brake pedal , vdc remained the same. no go brake lights. tail lights still functioning with headlights. abs light off for last week, now lights correctly only at startup. thinking that there should be no show of 12 vdc at fuse terminal clip with pedal up, should only show 12vdc when brake pedal is pressed.am i right. wouldnt this confirm brake switch is stinko or shorted? any other tests? if bulb out sensor went to hell would brake lights fail? thanks tons oldduke
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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No, no, no, and yes.
You've done step 1.
Something is not right that you're getting only 12.04V with the engine idling. Should be over 13V (charging) but that's irrelevant to the brake light problem.
The brake light fuse #7 should be hot all the time. Test with engine off key in your pocket. It should stay hot when you press the pedal, which connects the load. The bulb out sensor is frequently the cause of no brake lights. That's Swedish Irony, for which Volvo's symbol stands. The internal problem is broken solder.
You have to move to step 2 now to verify that. That's the step where you need to remove the knee bolster and drop the orange can so you can get your test light or meter on it.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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hi arty b- about to locate and remove, inspect and probably replace the bulb integrity sensor or bulb failure relay which appears to be in a red plastic can and is clamped to the front of the lower dashboard . appears this requires the removal of the right knee bolster panel on the side of the central dashboard console. do not want to accidentally explode the air bag in the steering wheel, so plan is to disconnect the battery before i start. the sensor appears to have 13 connector pins on it. btw rechecked the #7 fuse terminals with all systems off and the key out. both fuse terminals were hot and showed 12.5 volts. any additional warnings or instructions before i start
to move my squad up hamburger hill on this rescue mission? thanks tons oldduke
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"any additional warnings or instructions..."
The knee bolster comes out easy, but you need a #30 torx screwdriver. Pop off the covers. There is no danger of detonating the airbag in doing this, and anyway the airbag is not powered any time the key is off, so disconnecting the battery is a little like carrying two rabbits's feet up Hamburger Hill. The backup capacitor discharges safely seconds after turning the key off. Anyway, you need the battery connected to check the voltage at the red can.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Don't let people drive you crazy when it is within walking distance.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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hi arty b- thanks. why disconnect the battery when you dont have to right. didnt realize that capacitor lost its charge so fast. two rabbits feet wouldnt have done you any good at the bottom of the hamburger. chances would be better with a .45 and a grenade or a claymore. will let you know how the mission goes. when you say bolster panel you mean the upright plastic panel by your right knee correct? the sensor then would be behind the snap off panel above your knee on the dash correct? hope the plastic doesnt crumble when i unsnap it. hate to sound like a chump. thanks tons oldduke
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"...when you say bolster panel you mean the upright plastic panel by your right knee correct?"
No brittle plastic here. It is made of vinyl covered foam.
After removing the bolster there will be a felt-like sound insulation between you and your goal of the red can above.
As Field Marshal Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke purportedly warned "No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy."
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
By the time a man realizes that his father was right, he has a son who thinks he's wrong.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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hi arty- sincerely appreciate you walking me through this mission today. this picture is more accurate for my 92 245. did a ton of research yesterday. the first picture you sent me does not line up with the southern geography of my 240 . think it may be of a 740 . it has a 3 piece under wheel and side bolster. anyway, the knee bolster has one torx fastener. remember that from when i replaced the dead volvo alpine radio with a new crutchfield one in 2011. that one recently crapped after a million usages and luckily i had a new spare cassette model bought a year ago from crutch. good preplanning since you cant get these amfm cassette players anymore. ok enough of my superfluousness. forgot von moltke said that. clausewitz said it too. heard duke wayne say it in longest day movie(62?). when we hit the beach at omaha all the plans go out the window. hit the beach at asbury park a few times. ok back to reality- think the red can relay im looking to replace is behind the 2d panel you illustrate- with the plug and another torx bolt. ordered that part from autozone $60. guessing you have to get the bolster off first to then get off the 2d panel hiding the relay. btw noticed that this part is made by kaehler in germany but actually is made in china. some vendors list it for $300. let no one tell me there arent shysters today in the car businesses. btw arty since you have been so helpful, going to make you a card carrying member of cba. will keep you posted. thanks tons oldduke
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"the first picture you sent me does not line up with the southern geography of my 240 . think it may be of a 740 "
I sent you no pictures of a 740. Maybe someone else did?
Your knee bolster has two torx bolts holding it to a frame under your steering wheel. There's no "side bolster" just the one above your knees under the steering wheel. Once you get the orange can out, you might find it was made by Hella, not KAE. Made in the land of Moltke. Not Tzo.
$300 wow. Makes it worthwhile to prove it is the problem before replacing. That you can do by using your test light or meter on the pins as shown below:
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Occam's Razor: That among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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We're going for the record in trivia with this thread, wandering far off course. I still am interested though, in whether this brake light issue solves the ABS light issue. I've fixed an ABS-equipped 240 before with all brake lights out, but never paid attention to whether there was an ABS light set or if that particular car had cruise, which is also a factor in diagnosis. So we plod onward.
I think you linked this picture and oldduke attributed the post to me. This shows the BWFS in an '89, the year before airbags. That's why it looks strange to OP.
The unit Volvo installed into the OP's 92 was probably this one:
Here's how it works:
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
No, there are no dumb questions... just a surplus of those put without much thought.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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hi arty b- youre right on all counts. i mistakenly attributed that picture to you. still not sure what car it is apparently an 89 240?.fyi on the abs light yes it did go out with the new bulb sensor. found out a few more things doing the job. going to start a new thread to continue. thanks tons oldduke
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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We hope the orange bulb failure sensor can is the cause.
You did not remove the knee bolster and test the circuit inputs / outputs?
Kaehler began moving production to China a decade or more so ago. With quality control, China manufacturing can be as good as Germany.
Yes, stop / brake light switch replacement can be a cuss fest.
Orange can replacement is easy. They do fail. Hope the stop / brake light switch works fine.
--
Give your brickboard.com a big thumbs up! Way up! - Roger Ebert.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Yup, the orange can failed on my 1990. Similar symptoms to OD's. A good bet that is the problem. No guarantee though as the 240's electrical system can be a real headache. Think I fixed or replaced almost everything to get my 1990's brake lights to work...:)
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Test your sensor first per Art. If bad, move onto replacing.
If you have any boneyard 240's in your area save yourself some money and grab one or two brake light sensors from a "retired" 240. Should only be a few bucks... Two is better in case one doesn't work and you'll will also have a backup!
Brake lights are a real bugaboo for 240's! At least the sedans. Haven't owned a 240 wagon.
Please start a new thread!! This one is ridiculously long...
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"Please start a new thread!! This one is ridiculously long... "
Agreed. But you got here. Fact is, these off-piste excursions rarely help anyone but the OP, if that. Too much to wade through after a search.
Sedans vs wagons? You bet. Sedans much worse with the flexible circuitry.
The bulb failure sensors get broken solder internally and become intermittent if not altogether failed. An intermittent one could appear to work after jostling/jerking/knocking it around in the process of pulling its plug. Reflowing the connections is not nearly as easy as in all the other solder-troubled relays. These were made by Hella, and I guess second-sourced later by KAE as replacements.
A junkyard replacement would be how I would handle it, because I could reflow the old solder. Your average mechanical enthusiast not keen on relay microsurgery would be better off forking over the big bucks for a new one, given the safety aspect of losing brake lights.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Hanlon's Razor
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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"Agreed. But you got here."
Doesn't mean I liked it!
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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hi arty b- will try your 3 step program to remediate the brake lights. have verified good bulbs in all three brake lights. will recheck #7 fuse and right fuse contact for 12v. if still no go on brake lights will attempt to view the brake switch from under the dash . this 92 245 does have cruise control but never used it. will that prevent under dash viewing of the switch? want to see if a. the two wires are intact, b. the push button has free play and spring action and c. if the switch is lose or has fallen out of adjustment with the brake pedal.since 64 those 3 items always resolved quickly brake light switch problems in my american tanks. how high will the needle go on my cussometer (full 5 F) if i have to dismantle the dashboard to see or get to the switch? if this works, will get you a mint julep on next trip through stinking creek, md.thanks tons oldduke
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