I wish to change my trans fluid on my newly aquired 5 speed 240. Some say Ford Type F fluid. Others say Redline MTL. Type F is 5 weight. Redline MTF is 70 to 90 weight.
How can two fluids with such different weights be recommended???
The trans is noisy when cold, but then quiets down after a few miles.

I have used synthetic GL4(no sulphur) gear oi in both m47 and m46 with only slightly stiffer shifting when cold(It gets to -35c where i live)
I KNOW sacriledge to some,but it quiets old noisy transmitions with no ill effects also makes it easier to overfill early m47 (good)
--
Rene

I've been using AMS supershift ATF in my M46. Runs quiet and is rated for type F applications.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/automatic/super-shift-racing-transmission-fluid-sae-10w/?code=ARTQT-EA

Hi,

I’m pretty sure he is talking about putting in a M47 in his first post.

The Amsoil product is for racing of automatic transmissions.
They are used more today as they are faster to shift the majority of the time.

This M47 5 speed has bronze or brass synchronization for the gears.
Some Normal EP gear lubes have chemicals that attack the makeup of the metals in the bronze mixture.

Phil

Cheap brand for.100 miles to allow the fresh detergents to clean. Then change to Redline MTF

Hi,

I have been trying this out recently and it seems to be ok.

https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/FH-600891626

They are the best price over what dealers are poking to us in their special bottles!

Two years ago I purchased a 1993 car with a M47 in it.
The woman had the clutch replaced and new tires put on. All seemed fine but I did notice the trans shifted a little bit stiff.
I had another transmission from a PNP find. It was out of a 1990 so I wasn't too worried.

I found it a little later, about 4,000 miles later, the 1993 transmission to be getting a little noisy.
When I pulled the transmission I found some sort of oil in it that was not the red Type F.
It did not smell of a gear oil either! I assume it was engine oil.

This would explain the stiffer shift and now the noise. That oil was not working for lubrication it appeared.
I can't say either way it was done on purpose to fool me, as the lady seemed very honest.
He boyfriend had passed and she wanted a newer vehicle. It made sense if you saw her other vehicle a Chevy truck. He maintained them and she was left in a lurch!

She had some independent or Volvo independent garage do the clutch as they used a true Volvo dealer clutch.
It all looked nice when I pulled it. Just the oil didn't!
Bye me having a backup transmission, I may have opened a creaking door right onto myself!
I probably should have looked into the oil sooner but it had the new clutch and worked perfectly? My bad!

Anyway I have a 1991 car that I have maintained with Type F since I got it with 182,000.
It did have Type F in it when I got it. The car now has 280,000 on it and still works fine.
I have used Type F with some Lucas Auto/Manually type transmission additive.
I used it to give the fluid some friction modifier. In other words tackiness or viscosity, take your pick.

I too, like you, have concerns about fifth gear lubrication over the years.
Vpete, on Turbo bricks, has an article there that puts a fear into you!
Things have changed somewhat since his updated article of 2012.
He recommended the new Volvo oil so I went looking for equivalent or who makes the secret sauce!
I found two companies and both re-bottle the stuff towards the dealer markets!

The PNP transmission has about 132,000 plus, as a best guess on it.
I noticed this 1990 has the Volvo name casted into the side of the case. The 1993 did not!
It had some old RED fluid in it. I have to assume it was Type F.
I flushed out with Kerosene and then a clear parts cleaning solvent.
Blew it out with copious amount of dried compressed air until dry.

I Installed the trans and then did the overfilling technique with some wood blocks under the left side while on the lift. I used the above product from Fuch's.

When I first started to drive the transmission it had just a little of the same noise as the 1993.
I have put about 1500 miles on it now. It does shift smoother that it did at first and some of the earlier noisy, that I was sensitive too from the other transmission, has gone away.
It is still there at above 3000 RPMS in low and a little bit in second. This if,I push it only above 3000 RPMS.
The noise or actually a tiny rattle of the shifter in low is there.

This noise was a lot worse in the earlier transmission of the 1993! It's got to be a bad bearing or two! This transmission had 200,000 on it and went down hill fast on me.
I want to blame the engine oil "caper" on it IF it was done to get it quieter!

So far, I'm still leaning to change out the Type F in my 1991 car with the product above because the newer older (?) PNP transmission doesn't seem to mind it!
It just might be better for it?
Time will tell?

Keep me posted on what you do!
This is a case study, going on here!

Phil

Hi Phil,

The fluid you recommend is GL-5, not GL-4.

https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

GL-5 contains sulfur and maybe phosphorous increasing viscosity in such a way as to be useful for a differential (much more viscous or thicker.

Sulfur and phosphorous in gearbox corrode yellow brass metals as in the gearbox synchros of RWD gear boxes.

The Fuchs site product descriptions for gear oil do mention matching manufacturer specification yet do not include such detail to be certain.

May be better suited to a FWD / AWD manual gearbox transaxle as on VW. I'm unsure.

Does not mention additives for synchros with brass in them.
https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/automatic/super-shift-racing-transmission-fluid-sae-10w/

Ford "Type F" specification is ESW-M2C33-F. Some versions of this "Type F" may or may not contain additives to protect the brass synchros in the main and lay shafts.

MTL® 75W80 GL-4 GEAR OIL
https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil

"Safe for brass synchros, as it lacks the reactive sulfurs found in most GL-5 oils that cause damage"

Not all GL-5 includes sulfur. Maybe the Fuchs you advocate here does not include sulfur. Yet the Fuchs you mention refers to an ATSM-based MIL spec that uses Sulfur and or Phosphorous additives.

Hope that helps. Both the Amsoil SuperShift and the Redline MTL do okay. The Redline MTL is more viscous than the Redline version.

Hope that helps.
--
Donate NOW! Give your brickboard.com a big DONATION!!! Find the on brickboard pages!

I drained and replaced with cheap type F ATF. Black oil had metal on plug and something probably copper in it. Plan on driving it for a couple of hundred, then replacing with.......hmmmmmmmm?
The noise is still there when cold, I can detect no change in the shifting.

Hmmmm. Will start with type F or syn type F. Will report back with results, and report on what drains out of the trans.
Thanks

Seems you already have the answer, that there isn't a consensus, other than to not use Dexron. Folks have successfully used many different lubricants in their M46 and M47 transmissions over the years, Type F, MTL and even 10-W30 motor oil.

If the trans were healthy, I'd be tempted to use a thin oil for efficiency. Perhaps a thicker oil would be better at quieting the noise. You could experiment with both! Try Type F, observe the noise, then flush and replace with MTL, compare.

Have you checked the FAQ? There's some good tips and tricks in there on how to do the job.
--
XC60 / Odyssey

Will try type F, and report results. Am curious to see what drains out. Thanks

Which transmission do you have, an M46 or an M47?
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com

Use a synthetic Type F such as Amsoil SuperShift:

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/transmission-fluid/automatic/super-shift-racing-transmission-fluid-sae-10w/

The Redline fluid is GL-4 lubricant (without Sulfur), so 75-80W viscosity is very different than how engine oil and differential GL-5 viscosity is measure.

MTL® 75W80 GL-4 GEAR OIL
https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil

GL-4 lubricants for manual transmission does not contain sulfur compounds and includes additives to limit or protect (can we say) the yellow metals in the synchros.

Helps to raise the engine exhaust side of the car at the jack point for some time to allow all fluid ot drain.

Inspect the fill (remove first) and drain plugs. One or both includes and magnet load to capture ferrous alloy particles. Remove these particles.

You may want new crush washers for the drain and fill plugs. The copper crush washer the factory installed can be distorted and not regain seal and proper torque.

Find the RWD Volvo manual gear box over fill method. At essence. at the jack point behind the engine air intake side (North America Driver Side), with secure lifting method. I use a well serviced not leaking made in China used Craftsmen 6-ton trolley or floor jack.

Read here and search for overfilling the gearbox (Copy and Paste URL into new browser tab or window):
https://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/TransmissionManual.htm

Read about overfilling and gearbox noise. The Redline MTL is much more viscous than Ford "Type F" specification.

Do not use Ford "Type G" or the hybrid Ford "Type F/G". Never Dexron, Mercon or the like.

Engine oil does not contain the additives to protect the yellow (brass) metals in the main and lay shaft synchronizers. Not a good idea.

MTL® 75W80 GL-4 GEAR OIL
https://www.redlineoil.com/mtl-75w80-gl-4-gear-oil

More viscous, yet many report notchy or difficult shifting more so in cold weather.

Volvo used to or continues to sell a high quality GL-4 gearbox oil for M47 as Turbobricks (where did he go also?) and brickboard user VVpete would mention. The part number VVpete mentiones are NLA.

Yet you may want to contact the stealership should Volvo sell this. The FWD/AWD models continue to use a similar formulation yet the M5x, M6x AWD/FWD gear boxes are built with much higher tolerance.

However I have seen the Volvo part number of the gearbox oil M47 gearboxes use sold elsewhere. Volvo PN 1161645 yet Tasca Volvo lists this as NLA without supersedence to a newer or high Volvo part number.

Also, as the clutch wear, you must adjust the clutch cable for optimal free play at the throw out arm of 1/16" to (better) 1/8" - about 3mm to 5mm. Maybe a little more.

IMPORTANT!!!! At stops or red traffic lights, do NOT maintain a pressed in clutch pedal. Use the clutch pedal to engage and disengage gear for shift. If you maintain a pressed in clutch pedal, the clutch kit components wear prematurely and quickly. Specifically the throw out bearing.

FINALLY, what gearbox noise? Please describe when the gearbox noise happens. Clutch pressed in or not? Cold or warm? Certain gears? The FAQ article can help you.

Questions?

Hope that helps.
--
Donate NOW! Give your brickboard.com a big DONATION!!! Find the on brickboard pages!