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'85 245 Non-Turbo 120k miles
This is my old 245 now owned by a friend and I gave him (essentially) a lifetime warranty and am trying to get him back on the road.
Symptom: No Spark
Voltage to coil. Did the diagnostics in the Bentley and it came up a bad pickup/trigger unit. Car has the Chrysler ignition module but NOT the distributor shown as normal for this vehicle. (I posted the information in an earlier post I can't locate now), but I got the Bosch Part # off the old Hall Effect Sensor in the distributor and located one on ebay eventually (NOT easy to come by).
It came w/out the base (that was shown in the illustration of what I bought) so had to mount it on the stock base (it was crimped on originally, NOT easy!)
Went to plug the harness into the new pick-up and darned if the harness plug is DIFFERENT from the new one (slightly, but ont plug in).
The size of the harness plug is SLIGHTLY bigger then the hole in the Trigger Unit Socket, and the flat-blade spacing in not linear in the Trigger, where as in the harness the contacts are equally spaced apart (see illustrations below).
Question is if I put new connectors on the Trigger Unit and the Vehicle Harness (mating ones I can buy and splice in), is this the right way to do it?
The Bentley (Manual L293 for 1983-1993 Volvo 240) shows Pg 390-26 that the Module has 6 wires (ours has 9 wires) but shows the harness connector numbered 1,2,3 connected to the Distributor #s (-), (0), and (+) respectively, but the harness wire colors in the Bently do NOT match the car's wire colors.
The Bentley Ignition Sys Chapter (Pg 280-2) shows the Chrysler Ignition picture (No color Codes or #s). The Distributor Harness Plug and Distributor Socket match the Bosch pictures shown on Bentley Pg 280-9 Fig 15 and 16 despite having a Chrysler Module. And the distributor itself IS a Bosch, but the Part # does not match anything I found for any '83, '84, '85, or '86 240 or later 740 Distributor. It showed our distributor was for a VW in fact, but it obviously fit, plugged in, and worked for 35 years.
QUESTION: Would you just hook Harness Pin 1 to Dist (-), Harness 2 to Dist (0), and Harness Pin (+) as shown in the Bentley? The Bentley and Car Harness colors are different. (I figure the chances of finding a harness plug that will match the distributor pick-up socket would be close to zero, but I can find an after-market matching set to graft in.).
Car Harness #1 is Black (Bentley shows SB or Black)
Car Harness #2 is Yellow (Bentley shows BL-Y Blue/Yel)
Car Harness #3 is Green (Bentley shows R-R Yel/Red)
Trigger Wire Colors can be seen inside distributor where they connect to to the socket on the trigger unit)
Trigger Wire (-) Black
Trigger Wire (0) Green
Trigger Wire 9+) Red
I ASSUME (dangerous?) that the Trigger wires are hooked to the trigger socket terminals as were the old ones (unfortunately that was thrown out before realizing the harness plug was slightly "off" sized from the trigger unit socket so cannot compare now).
My concern is we hook up the harness-to-trigger incorrectly we could damage the trigger unit? I would feel more comfortable if a Bentley Wiring Diagram matched the vehicle better (I looked at all years and none are like ours).
The car is almost 30mi from my house, so unfortunately I am trying to limit my 60mi round-trips to new owner's place.
I am going to attempt to post photos of the components-
Thanks in advance if anyone has a clue.
mousetester
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Can you tell me what years, makes and models that used the hall sensor you bought and installed?
With that information, I might be able to find the correct plastic plug for the car harness side and you might be able to transfer the wires without cutting.
FYI, I have the correct NOS hall sensor with the correct plug and I checked the wire locations and they are the same as your new one, so if we can find the correct harness side plug, it will fairly easy.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Can you tell me what years, makes and models that used the hall sensor you bought and installed?
Sadly I have no idea whatsoever.
The Bosch Part # (number molded into the white top of the electronics of the Hall Effect portion itself). is the SAME # that was on the one installed in the installed distributor.
The installed distributor is a Bosch 0-237-506-001 and under the #s is "JH4"
I just looked at https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts/Bosch_Tune_Up_Parts.pdf and could not find the distributor in this VW Applicatuion chart.
The Pickup I bought is a "Wells RB 119" on the box but was actually the proper # Bosch part, and the two cross-checked in a chart I found when I bought it.
I don't want to disassemble the distributor to get at the pickup again as it's rather "fiddly", but I did a search of the Wells RB 119 (that was a cross-match to the Bosch number I cannot access, but the one in the car had different plug dimensions) just now and found a RB119 on ebay that said:
Fits 1984-1986 AUDI 5000, 1985-1987 AUDI 4000 {5 CYLINDER} AND AUDI 4000 CS QUATTRO, AUDI GT, VW GOLF, VW JETTA, AND VW QUANTUM CARS.
Photo of a Wells RB-119 (stock photo- Mine did not come with the mounting base shown here):
The opening in the pickup sensor socket is 16.35mm by 6.35mm (interior dimensions), with the insertable part of the plug needing to be slightly smaller, or course. (exclusive of "keys"). The blade contacts inside the socket are not equally spaced, with the distance between the (0) and the (+) blades being slightly closer together than the (-) and (0) slightly wider. The outside of the socket is roughly oval viewed from above, and has no "pins" or "catches" for the harness plug to latch onto. The photo in my initial post pretty much describes it.
This is a Photo of the Wells RB-119 Socket I have (smooth outside-no locking notches) :
With that information, I might be able to find the correct plastic plug for the car harness side and you might be able to transfer the wires without cutting.
FYI, I have the correct NOS hall sensor with the correct plug and I checked the wire locations and they are the same as your new one, so if we can find the correct harness side plug, it will fairly easy.
I'd prefer not to disassemble the distributor again if it can be avoided, actually.
Just curious- Given the fact the Volvo literature shows a different Bosch Distributor Part Number than any '84, 5, or 6, when I researched it a couple of months ago (when I bought the pickup and had to precisely drill a new hole for the pickup's locating pin in its base plate), is this likely a user-substituted part at some point, or do you show 0 237 506 001 as an original Volvo OEM part?
Thanks Eric!
Bob
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Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hello,
I showed your picture of the connection to the hall sensor you installed to couple of mechanics that work on mostly European cars and they identified the plug as belonging to a Saab.
I suggest you go to a self service junkyard and seek out mid 1980s to early 1990's Saabs and cut 1 out leaving yourself plenty of wire in case you need to splice.
You may not need to splice if the connectors can be easily removed from both plugs so you can transfer the original wires with their connectors to the Saab connector.
FYI, your distributor is the correct 1 for the car.
Below is a link to 1 of your previous threads.
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/index.htm?id=1675201&show_all=1
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hi Eric,
I appreciate that you took the time to check around for me (and my friend) to see what would fit the connector!
I have a Pick-n-Pull near me and occasionally have a Saab of that vintage (saw one about 2 years ago there). I don't think I've even seen a Saab on the road since that point here (Olympia in Western Washington), but I realize they are relatively common in some parts of the country, though.
I will give my Pick-n-Pull a call and see if their inventory includes one now.
I guess that molded-in Bosch Part # on the white cover on the actual electronics has little to do with the remainder of the assembly itself, so that was a poor way to choose a new component.
Interesting that Saab has no retaining pins/lugs/tabs like most brands and relies only on a friction fit.
Thanks,
Bob
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Hello Bob,
Now that I know that it is a Saab part, I called another shop that knows Saab and he confirmed that what you got is indeed from a 1986-1988 Saab 900 or Saab 9000.
He also told me that the dust boot is what helps hold the plug in so try to get that too.
Good luck!!
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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GREAT information!
I will be away for about a week in Phoenix and I'll see if I can find a pick-n-pull down there and the new owner of my car will look here in WA.
THANK-YOU and your friends for the information! Good to know the boot retains the plug in the socket. Not how I'd do it, but I guess Saab had their reasons.
When I get back, if we had success I'll let you know. Hopefully the test I did was definitive in ID'ing the fault. I remember getting single sparks when triggering the module itself also, so that also points to the problem.
I suppose if worse comes to worse, and it doesn't fix it, maybe an earlier points distributor and coil would get it to run, or does it need the engine speed signal from the ignition module (like the Jetronic D used ignition points contact pulses) to work the Fuel Injection? I don't remember the engine has a crank or cam sensor off hand to trigger the ECU.
The RR passenger floor pan has rust that extends ominously to the right rail, so the car is of declining economic value, so spending a fortune is not justified at this point, but if it could be made to run, it would be nice. It's a shame because it was the very nicely optioned manual trans model with leather and lots of chrome trim most 240s didn't have, ande the topside original maroon paint (no dings or dents) still polishes beautifully.
Bob
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