A few years ago, the owner of a shop told me Bosch, of all vendors, is not what it used to be. Bosch, the gold standard, none better. I didn't appreciate exactly what he was talking about until a few minutes ago.

I needed a couple of OXS's for my two '93's. I dutifully consulted the Bosch online catalog where I found that I needed Bosch P/N 13308. So, I searched the i-net for the best price. It puzzled me why FCP did not list that Bosch P/N on their website, but, what the hay, if Bosch said that's what my cars needed, that's what they needed.

Well, as I found out when I was about to make my 3rd trip under the car, that part was not correct; it had a female connector on the heater conductors. Oh, it would have been no big deal to hack the original endo from the old OXS onto the new one, but that would no longer be the OE equivalent plug-n-play part that I bought and I had to think about the warranty implications.

So, I called Bosch Customer Service, who transferred my call to the Bosch warranty department. The rather testy agent there asked what I wanted. Obviously, I wanted the correct parts overnighted to me so that I could slap them into my 240's. She couldn't do that, only send me a refund. She did agree to have their "application engineer" research the "issue" and call me back with the correct P/N.

I just got off the phone with her, She said that 13308 was the correct number. I told her I had been driving 240's for more than 40 years and . . . blah, blah, blah.

So, some advice:

1/ Bosch P/N 13308 does not have the correct endo on the heater conductors to fit any 240 that I know of.

2/ If you need a new OXS (not such a rare thing) do not buy a Bosch 13308 as called out in Bosch's catalog unless you do not mind hacking the connector from your old OXS onto the new one.

3/ Bosch, you better get rid of those feckless application people who are taking up space in your offices.

OK, no it's no big deal as long as you do not mind being the pivot man in this circle jerk. And, Bosch, hows about just selling me what you offer?

Richie (near The Burgh)

To be honest... I've thought Bosch was kind of crappy since about 2005.

Granted I lived in the desert in California, the "best of the best" Bosch wires had their crimped on ends come off *every* time I removed them. Literally every single time I changed plugs or even removed the wires. Not to mention those awful "single platinum" plugs with a flush center electrode that got oil-fouled in all redblock engines in about 20 miles.

Bosch is updating or has updated their part number schema it appears.

The vendors we use list the Bosch part number we're familiar with for an AMM.

LH-Jetronic 2.4 and 3.1 use the same 02 sensor.

Rarely do you see the new part number at a vendor ... maybe a cause for difficulty in sorting what parts you need?

I have new Bosch parts made in Brazil and all works as I'd expect. No Russian Bosch parts yet. May need three sets of cap and rotor soon? Run out of the junkyard nearly new cap and rotor pulls.

I'll use the Volvo part number to find the OEM part number using iPd, FCP, Volvo Parts Webstore. The GCP catalogue is sort of terrible.

I'm going to stick with Tasca Parts for Volvo OEM.

Wild how a blue box center support bushing, that was like $50-70 parts like two decades ago, is under 40$ now. Marked made in Sweden bought from Tasca parts. Way better than the old and broken Scantech center support bushing for Type 03 driveshaft in the verdigris 1992.

Yet now off topic about Bosch corporate morons.

Time to fill 1992 M47. Yay! M47 may have a leak. Oop!
--
Beh.

Globalization is here to stay. Quality control is second to profit.

Bosch car batteries are garbage. Both failed in just over 3 yrs.

My buddy, The Tube Guru, made a 90-mile round trip specifically to buy a Bosch battery. He is currently fluffing and buffing an air-cooled Vanagon Westphalia. His collector cars include the van, a Mexican Beetle, and a 912 Porsche. He is fighting the battle of trying to keep them as stock as possible.

When he needed the battery, I suggested he use a locally sourced Deka because they have always given me good service. He sorta scoffed at that idea, blinded by the Bosch name.

Last I heard, he has to make the trip over the mountain in order to exercise a warranty claim on a 2-month old battery.

I have a '93 240 which may damn well have the original Volvo battery in it. The car was stored for a few years and only has 116 Kmi. on it, but as far as I know, that battery is original to the car.

Richie (near The Burgh)

But what actually IS an "original" Volvo battery? Who is the OEM that puts the Volvo name on it instead of their own?

You could ask the same question about Bosch batteries. Is Bosch actually a battery manufacturer? It doesn't seem to be listed as one, in fact, here it's stated that they are made by Exide Technologies.

"He is fighting the battle of trying to keep them as stock as possible."
Could this also be a reason to choose the Bosch brand over any other?

There's a great difference between OE and OEM. I found that out buying an OEM Bosal Headpipe (Original manufacturer, don'tcha know) for a 240. Bosal's application engineer told me they have their OEM side and their OE end and the two can't even talk to one another. Their OEM product certainly proves that to be true.

The OEM pipe was such dreck, I ended up going to the dealer.

Richie (near The Burgh)

Hi,

Thanks for the knowledge this morning!
I didn’t know there was an actual difference between the two. What a slight of hand play on consumer.
The word “dreck” was new to me too! It came back as rubbish or trash. Now a UK person would just say, “rubbish!”
Got me curious and confused about where you are from with the phrase “ don'tcha know” seemed Canadian or Minnesota?
You then add a signature at the bottom from “The Burg” too!
I had looked that one up before and so I think that means Pittsburgh Pennsylvania?

Yep, I be getting more educated everyday.
I just cannot help myself since I have had such a long ways to go, it seems endless!
(:-)

Phil

Problem with that is the dealer only stocks the Bosal/walker (same company now) garbage. As thats all thats available unless you take the chance on the Chinese SS version at twice the $$. The OE was built to last.

The Volvo battery that was not maintenance free used to last 8 yrs to the month without fail. Sears Diehard International the same . Both of Course are no longer made. The warranty replacement I received is a Champion as they no longer carried the Bosch Line( Evidently for good reason) The other went just after the 3 yr warranty and I am now using an Interstate battery in the that car. Interestingly they only offer a 30 month replacement warranty and all are maintenance free. Which is probably why none last anymore as you cant add water to the cells.

Let me see if we've got this right:

a) The Bosch OEM catalogue vehicle selector cross references the O2 sensor for your 1993 240 as their p/n 13708 (with connector) and p/n 15737 (a generic fitment without connector). The vehicle selector does not offer any variants in fitment, nor is there a cross reference to a Volvo p/n). Note the listing for p/n 13708 specifically indicates a female connector and it doesn't say "Exact fit".

b) FCPEuro (one of the more reputable aftermarket sites when it comes to fitment) lists a number of Bosch O2 sensor fitments for your 240s, including
that Bosch p/n 13708 (cross referenced to Volvo p/n 684290) specifically for a 1993 240, but notes fitment is for *California emissions* (and 940 B230FD w/Pulsair)
and Bosch p/n 13704 (cross referenced to Volvo p/n 3501753) is listed as the fitment for a number of other later 240/700/900 B230F (non-turbo) engines.

You noted a discrepancy between these catalogues, so the first mistake on your part was not investigating further. If you'd bothered to look up, for instance, a 1992 240 in the Bosch catalogue, you might have seen that 13704 was the fitment listed there, it also says female connector, it explicitly says "Exact fit", and the same 15737 is listed as the one to use of you don't want the connector.

You complain that the 13708 you received has a female connector that doesn't fit your car, thus suggesting it has to be an incorrect listing (which is a bit suspicious to me as both O2 sensors are listed with female connectors, however you're the one under your car and presumably the original O2 connection has not been altered further back).

When you call to complain to Bosch (one of the few auto parts manufacturers still with a live customer support agent), they say they'll have to have a technical person look into it and as you naturally weren't willing to wait they offered you a full refund without further question.

You now claim this is further proof that Bosch has fallen apart as an auto parts manufacturer, also implying their branded parts are of inferior quality.

I get that you're frustrated, but you are indeed partly to blame for trying to cut corners and use the Bosch cross reference catalog rather than starting with a Volvo parts catalogue. If you'd bothered to look at an on-line Volvo parts catalogue, you'd have quickly noted there were a number of fitment variants and that p/n 350753 (Bosch equiv is their p/n 13704) was indeed the most likely fitment for your car. Many parts suppliers make it clear that there are no guarantees unless you're verifying fitment by VIN as there as so many markets and variants, especially for import cars.

To go further and slam Bosch as now being some kind of inferior company with inferior products because they haven't found an oversight in their parts selector cross referencing their current product line to an almost 30 year old import car and must also be sacrificing quality while trying to stay competitive in the modern world of global auto parts manufacturing, well I guess you must know a lot more about it than I do.

And just to hit you once more while I've got you against the ropes here, if you'd been really smart and wanted to cut a cost corner, you'd have gone for a Bosch sensor without the connector, which is the exact same sensor and in the order of half the price of what you likely paid. The difference between O2 sensors for the various LH 2.4 engines is usually just the length of the wire based on the location of the sensor and the routing to get there from the main harness.

As you've likely got LH 3.1 then it may or may not be a different O2 sensor body, but based on the catalogues I've looked at today, I rather suspect it's the same sensor, just using a different connector (as you have found). It may well be tht Bosch doesn't have an exact fitment for your LH 3.1. If you check the Bosch manufacturing stamp on the O2 sensor body, it may well be that the O2 sensor you received is the same as that on your original Volvo sensor.

You should end the day here on a positive thought. You've likely got what is now basically the universal fit O2 sensor once you cut the connector off, and for way, way less money than buying the same part with the Volvo name on it.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now

"Let me see if we've got this right:" - No, you do not have it right; you don't even call out the P/N which Bosch stated was the one to use for my application.

"And just to hit you once more while I've got you against the ropes here" - Before you make such bold statements, you better make sure you're wearing a fresh panty liner.

Richie (near The Burgh)

“ so the first mistake on your part was not investigating further. ”

Yes Dave, you’ve got that right...

OP, You’re talking about a 25 year old car, maybe will take a little work? Try that with a 50 year old car.....

I recently bought a rebuilt Bosch starter (not rebuilt by Bosch probably so not quite the same problem) but the two blade terminals on the solenoid where both 1/4" instead of one being 3/16". Of course I didn't notice this until back under the car, starter installed, trying to plug in my harness.

Who did you buy from?

Would it not be a better idea to buy according to Volvo part number?


--
'79 242, '84 DL 2 door, '80 DL 2 door, '89 DL Wagon, '15 XC70 T6 AWD

Did that, or so I thought.

Richie (near The Burgh)

You mean to tell me that Robert Bosch himself didn't take the phone call with you to address your concerns?!

Please. At least you found a real person on the other end of the line. Not only that, but they actually called you back! That's impressive. Bravo Bosch (though I really question why they bother with that level of customer service in this day and age...) People like Richie from The Burgh are gonna be pissed about it anyway.

Heck, you oughta be happy you were able to buy a part for an 30+ year old dwindling market application, much less have the choice between the CA compliant part and non-CA emissions compliant part...
--
XC60 / Odyssey

When I order from a vendor, after giving them the VIN which they request, I expect the correct part to arrive. Why wouldn't I? I did whatever they needed of me, now it's their turn.

Why I should be happy with feckless performance? C'mon, in my world, I would be embarrassed to come up so lame. Calling me back with some useless line of bullshit, certainly is nothing to celebrate.

Oh, how on earth would you know what pisses me off?

Richie (near The Burgh)

A "few" years? I've been hearing this for the past 10 or 15 years.
Having said that, I have not encountered problems like you, though. Yet...

Like any other big company, Bosch is shifting production to lower wage countries.
But also, the current company strategie is different from what is used to be. Corporate decisions are not usually made with customer satisfaction as the highest priority.

I think right now Bosch's focus is more on adapting to the rapidly changing car industry that is set on phasing out the internal combustion engine in a relatively (compared to its existence) short period of time.

That has me wonder: where are your (i.e. North American market) Bosch spark plugs manufactured?

I ordered BOSCH WDR7 for the 240 - they came - made in Russia

Thanks for the reply.
I actually didn't expect Bosch to ship Russian made spark plugs to the North American markets, rather have them made more locally (i.e. South America), but there you have it.

We get the same Russian made plugs over here in the EU, and I have used several sets over the years now. They don't perform any different from those that were made in Germany.
So, the "made in Brazil" on the points may not mean anything other than that they were manufactured in a different place.

Yes we’re all ******, I recently bought a set of “genuine” Bosch points for my 1800, made in Brazil? Maybe they can make them, but reports say otherwise. And the Bosch “genuine classic parts” where you could go and verify the correct parts for your classic Volvo has been “down” for a couple years, claims to be under,....oh well, forget it. They have the info, can’t be bothered to share it. Building a space shuttle or something...

Well, Bosch and Geely (Volvo's new Chinese Masters) would rather you burned and then crushed your 240 and then bought a new Volvo every couple of years. So, if parts survive the lease period without falling apart, that is good enough. No matter how much I too would like to point the finger at them, there are a lot of products they made for a lot of cars that came after the RWD Volvos. Unless a part is used in many other cars that are still on the road -- fortunately something common in European cars -- Bosch would need a bit more incentive to keep a line running for these products.