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Sages, so here is the back story.... Bought the car back in 2017. It needed an AMM to get it to kick off and idle correctly.
The mileage is 215k, year is 1993.
Replaced a lot of things:
spark plugs,
wires,
rotor,
cap,
crank position sensor,
new water pump,
timing belt,
idler pulley,
hoses,
air cleaner.
The car does not get driven as I'm still working on it in my spare time so it gets to sit a lot.
The car started and ran fine up until this past March, when the Fuel Pressure Regulator failed. Replaced it, and all was well.
Recently I pulled it into the garage and it ran fine. It got pulled into the garage to work on all the brakes, and when I went to move it, it would start, but ran really badly, like really rough idle, would not rev up at all, and when you left off the throttle it would run for a second and then just die.
Eventually, it would no longer start at all, though it would turn over.
I have spark at the coil, and cylinder 1. I can do all of them, but I thought I'd just stop there for now.
Fuel pressure at the rail is 40 PSI on turning the key and jumps to 43 while cranking.
Compression, though on a cold engine at cylinder 1 is 140 PSI. I stopped there as the battery was getting weak and needed to be recharged.
Yesterday I also removed and cleaned the idle air control valve as it was dirty. The TPS was replaced as it no longer made an audible sound when opening up the throttle. It was replaced with one from a working motor, and there is now an audible click when the throttle is cracked open.
I also swapped out and tested a different AMM, ECU, and EZK just because I could. Nothing made a difference.
Spark plugs are new, but now are fouled very badly with an oily residue.
I also put the car in test mode and I could hear the fuel injectors opening and closing and the Idle Air Control valve operating.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is. Apparently Murphy has taken up residence in my car and does not want to leave.
Any and all help here will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Matt
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1989 - 245, 1990 - 245, 1991 - 245, and 1993 - 245
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So, I'm an idiot, there I said it!
After talking with a co-worked who is an ex-mechanic, we/I came to the conclusion that my problem was fuel related.
Tonight, I pumped out of the tank tonight 5 gallons of very, brown, nasty, and old gas. That emptied the tank. The good news through all of this is I now know I need a fuel level sender as mine is stuck at half full.
Once the old gas was out, I poured 5 fresh gallons in with some Stabilh in the tank. I then pumped it through one more time and then placed it back in the tank.
I put it all back together and it popped off, but still ran like crap.
I then dumped a container of Berryman's injector cleaner in the tank and got the engine running. It took awhile but all the injectors and cylinders starting coming back around. It may take a while for it all to come back and settle down, but it lives again.
I will not let this happen again as this was very frustrating.
Plan now is to finish up with some more minor tasks and get this puppy registered and on the road so I can enjoy it.
Thanks to everyone for all of your advice and help.
Regards,
Matt
--
1989 - 245, 1990 - 245, 1991 - 245, and 1993 - 245
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Hi Matt!
Glad to hear that it was the fuel after all!
I said in my last post it was either too much air or not enough fuel and that actually meant the same thing.
Boy, that sounded like some real stink-o-fuel being brown and all!
With five gallons in a 16 gallon tank puts a lot of air above the fuel to decompose in!
I don’t think much of Sta-Bil for removing the problem, so you wasted an effort there.
That stuff is a preventative and mostly made of Naphtha.
It coats the hydrocarbons chain with a film to keep the air from oxidizing those that make up the octane value!
The cleaner will help thin out whatever it comes in contact with, but remember, the main filter is spoiled and any cleaner will have to work it’s way through that too!
Same goes for any screens on the injectors so each will take its own time about getting up to full flow again.
Berryman is the cleaner I like to use the most and is probably equal to the Valvoline Gumout product.
I seem to find Berryman's to be better priced for my economic whims!
Whatever you do don’t go with the SeaFoam Brand overpriced additives.
It’s oringinated for removing carbon gunk off two stroke pistons tops to circumvent a head removal procedure!
That was a common place procedure in those days!
An old engine cleaner for boats and other like Marine applications of years ago.
Sea Foam or soapy lakes, either one!
The SeaFoam name was catchy and popular, then!
Two strokes had additional problems with oil qualities within oil arenas towards motorcycles..
Add on mixing ratios, confusions of various octanes in leaded gasolines that’s when the real headache of plug fouling hit ya!
The answer later was the directly metered oil injection method. It helped clean up their messy act for a long time!
Techron is another scam as it’s no more than a standard Stoddard solvent, right on the labeling.
If you don’t look it up, you would not think that it’s on the order of a paint thinner in kinship!
Chevron Market packaging for profits!
Happy for your relegation and admonishment over gasoline, as a lesson well learned!
No one but you can do a better job of doing that than you!
Phil
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Hi,
Off hand it sounds like a lot of air and less fuel, since you ruled out ignition issues!
When you said you worked on the brakes, what did you do with them?
By any chance did you work around the master cylinder or replace it?
You said it started and ran really rough, so I’m wondering, if by any chance did you work the master cylinder and brake pedal to flush the brake lines or pressure bleed?
With any excessive travel the booster diaphragm may have gathered up a leak inside?
It would have to be sizable but hey the car sits? Under what conditions we don’t know?
The hose over to the engine may have loosened or cracked, especially, if it ever got brake fluid on it before this.
And then, there’s always the check valve in that line that can split or cracks its sealing disc?
After cranking the engine there should be a vacuum held witin the booster. Vacuum behind the check valve stays for awhile normally and it’s possible to wiggle the check valve, if you work at it to get air to jump inside! It should be a little bit difficult to have it leak if the grommet is supple.
Either the Check valve or the grommet can leak and cause idle issues.
The oily substance on the newish spark plugs seems odd, considering the injectors, should be gassing up the cylinders. A Mystery!
I would hope it’s not, really old gasoline, since the car has sat a lot!
The FPR might be stuck open (for a second time) to the return line and too much fuel is going back to the tank?
Gasoline GEL is not something you want to have to clean out of injector screens either!
You can hope the main fuel filter is restricted.
It’s supposed to save you some of that aggravation.
If it’s GELATIN clumps of gasoline, then a bad has grown a head to be the worst case scenario!
With March and until now on questionable aged gasoline.
I’m sure hoping that I’m blowing wind up a lady’s grass skirt here and there’s nothing more to see! (:)
Pressures are not the ultimate decision maker.
As an outside endeavor, you might want to consider checking fuel flow Quantity along with that pressure.
FYI, This is just something I try to do!
I try to avoid having any amount of gasoline ever getting anywhere near a year old.
Six months of storage, indoors is best and have a car tank full. The cooler the tank stays the better.
You want a minimal amount of air space above the gas to reduce Oxidation. This train of thought work in several ways.
I try treat my gas tanks as if they are like a gas storage can and was capped!
Unfortunately, they are not totally capped because their moving vehicles. Not static like a can!
Barometric pressure and temperature changes on the outside daily or even several times a day. This works through gas cap vents a tiny bit and it seems to still be ok for a six month period.
Before the evaporative captive systems and pressure holding gas caps, one could lose several ounces a day out of a gas tank.
The more of an air volume left in the tank the greater the exposure to various factors chemically.
This shortens the fuels octane level because fuel oxides.
Oxidation is the process as that is what burning is!
What you end up with is an additive gel or less Volatile hydrocarbons left overs!.
Take your pick which is varnish or gum?
Ask any boater about a sunshine covered boat on of their water reflectors!
With In a few months of sitting, it can amount to gallons gone but not the heaviest solids!
Degraded fuel has its moments!
Food for thoughts in the daytime as its all I got tonight.
Good luck!
Phil
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I had an idea, but you've already done it -distributor cap/rotor
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Matt,
I'm not sure what's on your like-new plugs, but I'd put my nose to the task there and at least clean them all and sniff again maybe.
I'm with Randy. No RSR in a 2-series. The relay that interrupts power to the injectors is the same one that powers the AMM, IAC, and fuel ECU, so if you get the clackety-clack in OBD mode 3 the system relay is doing well.
If you're curious about the CPS and ignition at the correct time, use a timing light while cranking.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
I am reminded of a story from years ago when GM throttle body fuel injection was a new thing on cars. A customer had his two-week-old Cadillac towed into the dealership with a "no-start" problem. For two weeks, every technician at the dealership worked on it trying to start it but to no avail. We checked for spark, compression, timing; pulled codes; set codes; checked fuel pressure; checked to see if the bumpers fell off... Every conceivable thing was done to this vehicle we could think of and still no start. Finally, one of the techs decided to check the fuel spray/pattern from the throttle body. He got a bit of the spray on a piece of paper, tried to light it with a cigarette lighter, and it did not ignite. The tank and fuel system were drained, filled with fresh fuel, and the car fired right up.
After contacting the owner, who then spoke to his younger children, it was discovered that the kids were playing "gas station" with the new Cadillac and garden hose. ---Bruce in Oregon via Rock Auto
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When our daughter's car wouldn't start recently it was the crank position sensor that died. It was only about 7-8 years old.
Greg
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Try an RSR. The function is to enable/disable the injectors.
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What is an RSR?
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1989 - 245, 1990 - 245, 1991 - 245, and 1993 - 245
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Radio Suppression Relay-
I'm not sure where it is in your car- In the 940 it's high up in the drivers side engine bay a foot or so back of the headlight.
Get the Volvo wiring diagram for your model and it will have wiring diagrams
and component locations.
The Volvo Wiring diagram for your model year is your best friend for troubleshooting.
Bill
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Bill,
Thanks, the RSR on my car is behind the battery on the driver side.
However, the Injectors work, or shall I say, I can put the car in test mode and hear the injectors going on and off.
Not sure that is the problem, though I will look at it.
Thanks,
Matt
--
1989 - 245, 1990 - 245, 1991 - 245, and 1993 - 245
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I learn something new about these cars all the time but I am not aware of any 240's that have a radio suppression relay.
--
Any twenty minute job is just a broken bolt away from a three day ordeal
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