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I upgraded the B18 in my 122S to a B20 engine. The engine was rebuilt by an old time Volvo technician.
The engine was a B20F with 8 bolt crank, it has now been reconditioned with STD bearings and 0.762mm oversize rings/pistons, new cam bearings, K cam, new OEM Volvo oil pump, new push rods and lifters, cylinder head shaved to B20B specs, and FI ports sealed off. Using Lucas high zinc 20W-50 oil.
Here in FL morning temperature about 60f. On start up, get about 40psi oil pressure, however, after driving about 20miles, at about 60mph, (oil pressure 10psi; water temp 180f; oil temp 210f). But stopped at next stoplight, oil light comes on and oil pressure below 5psi.
What would cause this low oil pressure ?
Bad oil pump ?
Seal ring ?
If the timing gear oiler nipple p/n 418416 was left off would that cause the low to no pressure when warm ?
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Planetman Said: "I would suspect the oil pump or oil pump seals 1st."
The square O-Rings are notorious for blowing out on a cold start particularly if the oil is too thick or the temperature is low.
Typical symptoms are lightly glowing oil pressure light at idle + it goes away when rpms are increased. If the cam sprayer had been left out, the front conrod bearings would have died & spun first & the first cam bearing would be dead.
I use a regular O-Ring behind the square O-ring at both ends, it halves the amount the oil pipe wobbles & prevents the square O-ring from leaving. Been doing this since since 1987.
1st, you could borrow a mechanical gauge to ensure the pressure is low as I have had an oil pressure light sender fail.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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if you want to test the oil pump you can pull the distributor out and drive it with an electric drill. you just need a hunk of rod about 1/2" diameter and you can file the end with a flat approximately 1/4" thick , if you look at the distributor driveshaft you can copy that dimension. your rod will look like the distributor shaft only about a foot or so long and with no gear on it.
perhaps you added the oil cooler to fix cooling issues and have removed it now..
mine was overheating and I unsoldered the top and bottom of the rad, made wooden sticks to fit the tubes and inserted them and cleaned each one out then soldered the rad back together. I had it in a laundry sink with a few PSI of pressure to check and remelt the odd spot where I got bubbles, and I sprayed it black after. It had a dramatic effect on the cooling ability. If I did it again I'd probably not remove the bottom of the rad. The more sensible way is to just send it to a rad shop and use money instead, but at the time I was a bit short on that stuff ;-)
rebuilders have better setups but I just used a torch.
for the water bottle I made a reservoir out of a hunk of 2" copper pipe, painted it black and fitted a rad cap to that. It replaced the plastic bottle.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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First off, if the timing gear spray nozzle was left off, I expect that your cold idle oil pressure would be struggling to reach 40 psi.
I rebuilt my B20E about 10 years ago. The engine had around 140,000 miles on it. I did not fit a new pump; but, I did measure the end clearances on the pump (hard to do accurately) and they seemed to be OK. I did fit an IPD high pressure spring in the relief valve. On start up I had excellent oil pressure and continued to have good oil pressure until one day last summer. I was out driving around and all of a sudden the warning light on my after market oil pressure gauge came on at a stop sign. Revving the engine restored some pressure; but, the warning light / low pressure returned whenever the RPMs approached idle. My separate idiot light never came on.
I initially expected an electronic gauge problem; but, a test with a different gauge at the port showed exceedingly low pressure during cranking so it was a legitimate low oil pressure problem. Disconnecting the port and observing flow out the port during cranking showed very little oil flow so that pretty much confirmed an oil pump / seal problem of some kind.
Upon removal of the oil pump the seals on the interconnecting pipe were in place and showed no sign of damage. I pulled the pump apart to inspect it. The end plate did show slight signs of scuffing; but, as best as I could measure with feeler gauges the clearance was just at the upper limit of the service limits. It is possible that the oil pressure relief valve was sticking open (consistent with low idle pressure and sort of OK higher RPM pressure). Unfortunately, once you remove for inspection it is kind of hard to evaluate that. There was nothing obvious holding the ball off its seat.
I fitted a new Melling cast iron pump and seals from Rock Auto and everything returned to 'normal'. I have no obvious explanation for why my oil pressure went rapidly from OK to not OK.
Since you have a new pump installed I would definitely check for the presence of the oil spray nozzle. Removal of the timing cover may be a hassle; but, not nearly as much work as lifting the engine to get at the oil pump which would be the next logical step.
If you are up for it, you could do a relatively simple test by removing the oil filter and cranking the engine to check for oil flow. It will be messy (large catch pan under the side of the engine). If you have no flow or very little flow then you likely have a pump / seal problem of some kind. However, short of no flow it is kind of hard to judge whether low flow is too low. If you have what appears to be good flow then a missing nozzle is looking like a good candidate.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Does hour B20 engine have a oil pressure control valve. Might be stuck
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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If the oil squirter isn't installed, I would suspect that you would have low oil pressure even when cold.
I would suspect the oil pump or oil pump seals 1st.
FYI, the oil pump seals can be damaged while installing the oil pump and I know as I done it more than once. The oil pump seal that goes into the block has to be inspected to make sure it wasn't pinched or cut while being installed.
Find out what the color of the oil pump seals that were installed.
Original oil pump seals were yellow, but have been updated to red. Aftermarket black oil pump seals are NEVER recommended.
--
Eric
Hi Performance Automotive Service (formerly OVO or Old Volvos Only)
Torrance, CA 90502
hiperformanceautoservice.com or oldvolvosonly.com
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Thanks for the response. I know extra care was taken in installing the new OEM Volvo oil pump with the correct seal, so I too suspect the timing gear oil squirter. It will take an extra effort to take off the timing cover off since I have a Vintage A/C system installed with the brackets attached over the timing cover. I will keep my fingers crossed hoping that this is the problem. Thanks
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I was able to remove the timing cover and found that the timing gear oiling nozzle was in place and functioning properly.
So I believe that the low oil pressure culprit was an "Earls" oil cooler adapter sandwich plate I had installed between the oil filter and engine block that had an oil temperature sending unit installed in it. I now removed this, changed oil and filter ands now at start up I get oil pressure readings of 60psi. After driving over a half hour with everything warmed up oil pressure is 25psi, at idle at a stop sign around 10psi and no oil "idiot"light comes on. After a 60mile round trip yesterday all seem normal, and I hope everything stays that way. I had this oil cooler adapter sandwich plate with the temp sender installed on my B18 for over a decade with no problem. Thanks for all the responses.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Is it a race car?
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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No, 1967 122S 4dr.
https://www.volvoamazonpictures.se/car_photos/P120/1967/79/Volvo_P120_67_79_1651.php
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Fred;
I certainly followed this thread with interest, but because I had little to add, never chimed in...(I'm thinking that any engine builder worth his salt, pro, not following the book so closely, or even amateur being very methodical, and who EVER has built a Volvo redblock before in his life, is surely not going to forget the Cam oiler...), so I always figured finding the issue would require a full teardown...
...so I am very happy for you, that you were able to resolve this without it! (problems with fresh engines are always a heartbreak!!)...I just wonder what the actual mechanism of the low pressure was...since the Earl's adapter and cooler plumbing is upstream of the oilsys and the location at which your pressure switch and gauge take-off points are, about the only explanation I can come up with is that the cooler associated stuff was a significant flow restriction...kinda counterproductive to having a cooler in the first place!...can you please investigate this adapter and cooler further (I just wonder if this is another case of chinashit strikes again??)...there is something more to be learned here!
Cheers
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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It was an Earl's Performance #516 Oil filter bypass adapter purchased from Summit racing, I don't recall were the unit was made. Had it on my B18 engine for many years, with inlet plugged and a VDO oil temp sender in the outlet port. Never created a problem or worry. On initial installation of the new B20, with 1800E oil pan I did not have the proper oil temp sender adapter for the oil pan and continued to use the Earl's adapter. With the low oil pressure and oil light coming on everything was checked, and a 2nd new oil pump and new seals was installed, but same problem. Than timing cover was removed to check if the gear oil nozzle was in place, which it was. At about this time I was able to obtain the proper oil temp sender adapter for the 1800E oil pan, so the Earl's adapter was removed, oil and filter changed, and at start up oil pressure reading are at 60psi. Now after numerous trips all seems to be normal and I am able to monitor oil pressure and temperature.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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It was an Earl's Performance #516 Oil filter bypass adapter purchased from Summit racing, I don't recall were the unit was made. Had it on my B18 engine for many years, with inlet plugged and a VDO oil temp sender in the outlet port. Never created a problem or worry. On initial installation of the new B20, with 1800E oil pan I did not have the proper oil temp sender adapter for the oil pan and continued to use the Earl's adapter. With the low oil pressure and oil light coming on everything was checked, and a 2nd new oil pump and new seals was installed, but same problem. Than timing cover was removed to check if the gear oil nozzle was in place, which it was. At about this time I was able to obtain the proper oil temp sender adapter for the 1800E oil pan, so the Earl's adapter was removed, oil and filter changed, and at start up oil pressure reading are at 60psi. Now after numerous trips all seems to be normal and I am able to monitor oil pressure and temperature.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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Fred;
Thanks for quick follow-up...I just looked at the Earl's adapter and don't see anything special or evil about it...but again, if the pressure sensing is in the block, after all the cooler and associated plumbing, you must consider the possibility that it was restrictive...but bottom line, if it is OK now...all's well that ends well...
Cheers
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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https://www.volvoamazonpictures.se/car_photos/P120/1967/79/Volvo_P120_67_79_1651.php
Nice car! my favourite colour too.
10psi is too low, but it's enough. What oil are you using?
The B20 oil pump is huge, it has the same guts as a B21 & B30, that's why they tend to wear the relief spring out long before the pump is done.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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https://www.volvoamazonpictures.se/car_photos/P120/1967/79/Volvo_P120_67_79_1651.php
Nice car! my favourite colour too.
10psi is too low, but it's enough. What oil are you using?
The B20 oil pump is huge, it has the same guts as a B21 & B30, that's why they tend to wear the relief spring out long before the pump is done.
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posted by
someone claiming to be
on
Wed Dec 31 18:00 CST 1969 [ RELATED]
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I'd say 40 psi cold is very low for a freshly built engine and as Planetman pointed out the missing squirter most likely the culprit. Time to get that timing cover off. - Dave
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