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My voltage meter drops by .5vdc with the parking lights engaged..8vdc w/ headlights on & 1.0vdc at braking. Cleaned terminals, upgraded headlamp wiring with relays fed directly off battery (e-codes).
Anybody have any recommendations with led bulbs for retrofitting taillights & front parking bulbs? TIA.
--
'88 245,M47,Virgos,268K
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If you search out here I recently posted my results on testing 3 brands of LED headlights in a 1978 and 1993 240. Significant differences exist in the quality of the pattern of light thrown on the road. Choose wisely.
BeamTech are clearly the best I've found, and we have them in Cibie 7" E-codes in the 1978 as well as about 10 other family vehicles. No failures in 5 years. But BeamTech don't offer a bulb for aeronose US lenses such as a 1993. Auxito does and they are OK if a bit flare-y on high beam. A third brand was miserable and I returned them.
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I wouldn't at all consider those acceptable voltages drops with the engine running (idle or otherwise). A few basic questions:
1) How old is the battery? If over 5 years then it's on borrowed time and may not be able to hold a charge or worse still may not be able to take a charge. After being on a charger, what is the voltage reading across the battery terminals -no loads on? You want to see just over 12V (12.25V-12.5V is what you're looking for in a healthy battery). If you see less than 12 volts then the battery is shot (or your meter isn't accurate). If 3-5 years old, has it ever sat around for an extended period without being charged? A battery shop or almost any half-decent garage can do a load test and will often do it for free.
2) You need to check the output voltage of the regulator. With a minimal load on and at well above high idle (say around 1700-2000 rpm) what volts do you see on the back of the alt (not at the battery) between the B+ terminal (large red wire) and alternator ground (case stud)? You want to see at least 13.75V, preferably closer to 14.2-14.5V. The voltage regulator pack inside the back of the alt doesn't last forever and it's fairly easy to replace. Even if producing the correct volts, anything less than a 1/4" brush extension out of the holder means they're worn and the pack is ready for replacement, and if the slip rings are worn then sooner rather than later. When the regulator pack is out, poke your finger in and check for an excessive brush wear groove in the slip rings.
3) Repeat that measurement across the battery terminals to determine the voltage drop due to resistance of the battery cabling and connections. A 0.1-0.15V drop is normal, while a 0.2 or more voltage difference indicates you've got a cabling/connection problem that needs addressing.
Trying to reduce the lighting loads is no more than a band-aid fix. Your 100 amp alt should be more than enough to handle e-codes plus all the other lighting while also maintaining a positive charge at idle.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi,
I agree with B.B. that you have a voltage problem
An Old battery, a brush/regulator problem might be in your near future.
It should hold itself up in a little tighter range. One whole volt is a concerning swing.
Just what were the reading’s ranging in between?
An battery with highly aged cells could be the simplest answer.
Check for two good grounds directly onto the alternator housing directly over to the engine block.
That wire can get frail.
The battery negative post needs two cables too. Engine block and body.
The positive side runs to the alternator via a terminal on the starter. They can get loose and that gives the alternator a false feedback reading too let alone a loss of current.
Phil
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Hi Dick,
Maybe you were measuring at lamp sockets? What's the voltage drop at the battery?
There's a lot of ground points to service. The Greenbook wiring diagram
lists two pages of them with pictorial diagrams. Shine them up and lube with conductive grease: High Nickel or copper based anti seize.
Give an email address and I'll send PDF ground point pages from the 1985 240 book.
Did you say that you have e-code headlights? Are they the TYC units?
Bill
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Thanks Bill.
I'm measuring at the battery. O.P was what those readings were. Since the greatest voltage drop is brake & parking lights I'm guessing a partial severed/or rusty ground in the hinge wiring (wagon). I stripped out one the hinge threads last time I was in there. Don't remember which hinge. Those things are like $75 a pop. Hence not wanting to remove them again.
I haven't done a parasitic type test yet. But green book copies would be much appreciated! All I've got is a Chilton. I'll PM you the address. Thanks again Bill.
--
'88 245,M47,Virgos,270K(300k realistically)
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Hi Dick,
>I'm measuring at the battery. O.P was what those readings were.
"O.P." Huh? Translation please.
>All I've got is a Chilton.
UGH! What you want is the Volvo wiring diagram for your model year
There's websites with various manuals in PDF format and you can find
hard copies at Ebay, they come and go daily. It did take me over a year to
find my 1993 940 book.
I have the 1985 book: TP30808-1 and it indicates that there's a ground wire
from the drivers side taillight to a ground screw in the body down low
towards the center maybe a foot or so. Lift up the hatch to find it.
You don't have to mess with the tailgate hinges.
>I'll PM you the address.
"PM" Huh again- good luck with dead Brickboard email.
I found my notes for that Auxito red 1157:
It operates at 1/4th the current, about 1/2 amp instead of 2 Amps
gives out 4X red light
Besides not toasting the lamp socket there's another a benefit.
I just smashed my taillight over the brake light and drove around for a week while the new taillight was in the mail.
No cops pulled me over for a yellowish brake/tail light.
TTFN, Bill
:-)
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Hi Bill. Based on your recommendation I've now ordered a pair of Auxito 1157 red LEDs to try. The specs for lumens are definitely good compared to others in the same price range. These are made in China and the eBay link you provided was a Kentucky seller with over 3 week delivery. You said the price was $12 a pair, but they're now $14 plus $11 shipping plus whatever tax applies, so more like $12 per bulb. You can currently get them directly from Auxito in China on their Aliexpress store for less than half that, $10 pair, w/free shipping, tax/brokerage/duty exempt, same 2-3 week delivery, so likely where the eBay seller is getting them. These aren't going to be knockoff Auxitos, you're just eliminating all the middle men, warehousing and standard shipping costs. I've ordered lots of half-decent stuff like this from Aliexpress over the years without any major problems other than the sometimes long shipping times. You can get an instant refund if the item doesn't arrive in time, is DOA, is not as advertised, or is found to be a knockoff.
BTW, you're quite right, it's not always intuitive, but you use red LED's behind a red lens so that none of the rated lumens are filtered out by the lens, whereas a bright white is fuller spectrum with only some of the lumens in the filtered red wavelengths. If you do further reading, real world experiments show that using a yellow LED behind an amber lens may not be as bright as using a white light of the same lumens behind an amber lens. The explanation is that the shade of amber lenses varies greatly from light yellow amber to reddish orange amber. The yellow LED wavelengths are in a relatively narrow band and these often don't fully match the amber wavelengths being allowed through the plastic lens.
Although a bit off topic here, since you and Kitty mentioned it in another thread I'll tell you how I easily shared the rear fog lights with the brake lights in my 740 using diodes and just as easily done with 240s. The way to do it is make a "Y" with two suitably wattaged diodes making a common output. You do it up behind the fog light switch. Sever the output of the fog light switch, with the wire from the switch to one arm of the Y and the wire to the foglights on the tail of the Y. The other arm of the Y is connected to the brake light switch. Power from either switch goes to the fog lights, but won't back feed into the other circuit, so you can have the best of both worlds using the fog light switch. This is ahead of the bulb out sensor so won't create problems. When you sever the wire, if you install a male/female bullet or spade junction at the cut wire then you can quickly go back to the original if a diode fails or you decide you don't like it. I crimped matching bullets directly onto the diode and then heat shrinked the whole thing.
The problem doing this with the newer 700/900s and many of the replacement taillight assemblies is that they now only have a single rear fog light, with DOT following the long time European standard. It's done for safety reasons so when someone flicks the fogs on, a closely following may go into panic mode thinking you're jamming on the brakes, which can lead to an accident. The opposite taillight assembly now normally has a mould with the hole filled in and no bulb contact strips. The plastic blank can easily be Dremeled out to accept a bulb holder, which you will need to procure. Different left and right bulb holders were used so you need to doublecheck which fits the now exposed moulded tabs. You can then solder wires to the bulb holder terminals.
I will caution that using standard single filament 1056 bulbs in the fogs along with the double filament 1157s in the brakes can make for a very large and bright double brakelight, almost too bright for following cars at night. I had a couple of complaints from friends who often followed me driving to/from work. Stopped behind me at a light their faces were very lit up at night in my mirror. The diodes I had on hand and used in my 740 mod were perhaps a bit under-rated and blew within a year, so I yanked the Y out, reconnected the bullets and never got around to fixing it before selling the car.
If I had nothing better to do then I would make the same mod to my 940 wagon taillights, but I'd rather just go for brighter LEDs rather than doing taillight surgery. The first two cheapo brands of LED 1157 equivalents I got as an experiment were barely as bright as the originals and the viewing angles were poor, so I took them back out.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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I'll go you one better on the doubled fog lights idea (I lived in yurrup for almost 2 decades and believe rear fogs are useful if you live in a foggy area, but I didn't). I did all that you suggest except the diodes, on my 1991 940T. Then I wired the rear fog light wire to the backup lights. I even marked this all back in the covered bulb access with a helpful post-it note for the next owner.
So I could switch on the backup lights by using the fog light switch. Helpful in some scenarios including tailgaters.
The only drawback other than loss of rear fog lights was that when I put the tranny in reverse, the fog light indicator on the dash (or switch, I forget which) would come on. Not a big problem.
If you really want rear fogs too you could get a surface mount trailer LED and wire it up. But then, you could do the same for doubled brake lights. Those surface mount trailer LEDs didn't exist back in 1991.
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Hi Dave,
Be sure you get the package with 5 3030 SMDs facing out and a
ring of 18 4014 SMDs Auxito has more than one 1157.
I found that knowing the LED potential isn't enough since they need to control
heat. A husky heat sink is integral with how hard they drive the chips.
It seems they run them up to 50C with the maximum being 75C
I got a set of cheap 1156 white with 10 pcs 3030 SMD and there was no husky heat sink and they were a disappointment (for brighter backup lights)
They needed to run very low current with no husky heat sink.
The white 1156 with the same chips was maybe $12
It makes a powerful backup light.
and the red 1157 $14 - which I tested in a 940 housing to measure relative brightness vs a standard 1157 through the red lens, using a light meter.
Have you tinkered with LED headlights yet? It's hard to select an LED
with the specs given by merchants being all over the place, many are absurd
liars, claiming 10 KW LEDs 1,000,000 lumens only $13.99 BUY NOW Last One!
Ebay and Amazon allow this ongoing deceit with fraudulent specs.
Cheers, Bill
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Hi Bill, Those Auxito 1157 red LEDs you recommended just arrived from Auxito's AliExpress store in China. These are the model you mentioned with the 5 LED SMDs facing straight out and the 18 LEDs cylindrically around the sides. Can't beat the price at $8.50/pair!! at the moment (USD, total incl. free ship, <3 weeks). I'm suitably impressed with both the brightness and viewing angle. A major increase in brightness for the park light function over incandescents, which are notoriously poor in all our 240 and especially 700/900 taillight assemblies, and especally as they age and the lens and reflective coating start oxidizing. The brake light function of the Auxito LEDs is only slightly brighter than incandescent, but still an improvement and with the 3rd brake light leaves little confusion as to braking. I've now ordered a set for our other 945 and also a pair of 1056 whites to try. Thanks for the recommendation and being so thorough in your testing and descriptions.
Next stop is a further upgrade to the badly aged headlighting, which isn't great to begin with in our 700/900s (except for the much more suitable e-codes that were used in the European market). Over the past number of years I've upgraded from trying longlife DRL halogens, to quality standard halogens to high wattage bright halogens with significant improvements, but still not great. Next step up for halogens would normally be eliminating the voltage drop by using a couple of all purpose relays to power them directly from the battery. Instead, my current plan is to try going the LED route to see if there's some affordably priced LED 9004 headlights that work well in our reflectors. There have been a number of suggestions regarding this both here and elsewhere in recent years.
I recently also tried using the well regarded Osram/Sylvania headlight restoration kit. It took a fair bit of elbow grease to work down through the various cleaners, sandpaper and polishing compounds to remove the exterior oxidation and get the lens as clear as it was going to get. The thing stopping it from being crystal clear is the remaining minor oxidation on the inside of the lens and of course the reflector coating. Overall, I'd say it's worth the money. They give you a lifetime guarantee if you apply it properly. Depending on how generously you apply the cleaners and how oxidized the lenses are, I found one kit is plenty for two of our headlights and will go as far as three headlights, but not four, so looks like I'll be into another kit one of these days to do our other 940.
--
Dave -still with 940's, prev 740/240/140/120 You'd think I'd have learned by now
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Hi Dave,
OK that you like the Auxito red 1157, and bravo for finding it so cheap.
Ebay must have their own warehouse because their best price is $13.99 USD
shipped. No better prices from China. Can you believe that Ebay would play games with the public?
What's that link you used? Do they ship to USA? I want to look at LED's
there.
The white 1156 version with the same LED layout is fabulous for backup lights.
You'll also find out that the heat sink is integral with the light output of
the lamp. They need to keep the LEDs cool to drive them hard and get high
luminous flux. I got a set of 10 pcs. 3030 white 1156 LED's from China
and they had no husky metal heatsink and were not as bright as the Auxito 1156
with 5 pcs. 3030 LED's. (They ran them at 50C., no heatsink-less current/light)
I was thinking of ditching the fog lights and wiring in a second pair of red
1157 there. Your notes of brake lights being annoyingly too bright should be
rethought, as in how to help tail-gater's decide to back off.
I'd like to annoy them all I can.
Halogen headlights are obsolete, selecting the right LED upgrade is a problem since you can't trust the specs of the sellers. The numbers they give are all
over the place. This is where it's good to establish some benchmarks for what
works and what doesn't.
Maybe the FAQ should include notes on LEDs? What works good?
Measurements of current draw and luminosity compared to standard halogen
with a light meter would help choosing the right LEDs.
Cheers, Bill
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Hi Dick,
Here's a good link:
https://volvo240-260.com/?dir=Wiring%20diagrams
Get the Charging manual TP30729-1
Also find the complete wiring manuals for 1985 and 1993
They are big files.
There's also a series of smaller Mitchell's schematics for each year
including your 1988. They are not in the same league with the Volvo
fault tracing, component ID and location etc.
Try to find the 1988 book, your best troubleshooting pal for your car.
Bill
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You would have to measure across every wiring connection, switch and relay contact to find the cause.
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Hi Dick,
Are you getting those voltage drops with the engine running?
If so there's a problem.
You can drop in an Auxito 1157 red led brake light that works
great in my 940 without bothering the bulb out sensor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/314207824147
The good news is these lights are very bright
They come on faster than filament bulbs- a little extra safety
Less current and less likely to toast your socket. Pair $13.99
If you want terrific back up lights Auxito has a pair of white 1156 LEDs
a little cheaper $11.59/pr with No issue with the Bulb out sensor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266449512907
These blow away 1156 filament lamps.
There's replacements for your 10W Festoon trunk lamp/heater.
just look at the PC LED cards with the festoon adapters on ebay.
You'll get way more light in your trunk.
You can have trouble with LEDs in the directionals and flasher circuits.
The flasher and Bulb out sensor are designed for filament lamps.
There are workarounds.
Check with RenoHuskerDu who uses LEDs in his 240s. He found switchback LEDs for directionals that he likes.
Be a sport and report back what works for you, comments appreciated.
Happy holidays, Bill
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Awesome, thanks Bill on the bulb recommendation! I'll look into them & report back.
Yes,I'm getting the readings with the engine running. And yes the results are a problem. But with 35 y/o wiring, it just seems more reasonable to accommodate a lesser load on the wiring & remedy it from there, if there's another cause due to some other electrical issue; hopefully AAA can tow me home.
Happy holidays!
--
'88 245,M47,Virgos,270K(300k realistically)
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