Greetings all-

I hear/read alot about the importance of flushing the AT, but don't hear much about the manual. I am assuming that it is recommended. I did some poking around and having difficulty finding the gasket and filter (assuming there is one) for the MT. Is this recommended? Procedure? Synthetic?

One more question, if I may.

Continuing on the MT theme, my shifting is getting a little wierd, and I am thinking that I should adjust the clutch cable. Is that difficult? Any advise appreciated by this newbie.

Thanks gang-

Joe HC
--
1977 244, B21F engine, 140K, "carlsbad yellow", IPD anti-sway bars, Minneapolis, MN

Joe,

Your thoughts are good. Drain tranny. (first make sure fill plug comes out)Get the OD access plate gasket from a good Volvo (or OD) source. You can easily see and access the planar screen. Clean well with an evaporating solvent. You'll need a special tool to open the lid to the cylindrical chamber with cylindrical OD screen. Clean this. See Bentley for details.

Button up and fill with inexpensive petroleum type F (DON'T use Dexron), drive for 1000 miles or so. Drain and refill with Synthetic Type F, such as Amsoil Supershift. Go 10,000 miles drain and refill. (Check filter screens again at this point if you are thorough, sometimes crud from unknown locations will be deposited on the cylindrical screem)
--
http://www.fidalgo.net/~brook4/oilslubesfilters.html

That's a nice looking car Joe. Check the release lever for the clutch and ensure it has about 1/8 inch freeplay before it contacts the bearing. Drain the transmission oil and refill with any good quality ATF. Ford, Dexron, Mercon, it doesn't matter in the standard trans. If the stuff you take out is really black and smelly, which it might be if it has never been changed, then change it again in a few months. There is no oil pan or filter per se on the manual, although there is a screen in the overdrive. Don't mess with it if it is working. Just change the oil. ( Don't use a gear oil like 80W-90 under any circumstances. Some shops do when they don't understand that Volvo MANUAL trans use automatic trans fluid)

NOT at all sure where you chicken choked this bit of wisdom.

RTFM. Do NOT under any circumstances, use Dexron or Mercon in an M46/M47. Has killed manual trannies, will kill again.

There are options like synthetic Type F, universal synthetic that meets the requirements of Type F, thin synthetic gear oil that meets the requirements of Type F (less the torque converter part).
--
http://www.fidalgo.net/~brook4/oilslubesfilters.html

The differences in ATF are in the frictional qualities they produce at lock-up, as they approach the slip stick threshold. Type F reflected Ford's use of a particular organic lining material, and the amount of it used in the clutch packs within their automatic transmissions. As far as lubricity is concerned, all automatics have steel gears in their planetary gear sets, and bushings, and bearings of various types, lubricated perfectly well by all types of ATF.
Ford fluid has been obsolete since 1984, when even Ford designated Dexron for their transmissions. And any Ford trans overhauled with modern rebuilding components can use any fluid.

Still, in a Volvo manual trans, Mercon and Dextron are not useable. The frictional qualities as they approach lock up are determined by the length, quantity of and the affinity of the chains for each other (They like to stick together and not separate)of the polymner chains that comprise the fluid.

The longer the chains and more of the longer chains the more of them that like each other the higher the resistance to squeeze out. One problem is that these are the more difficult to pump as the chains do not like to separate as they pass through the pump. If the clearances between mating parts are close together the greater the pressure needed to push the fluid.

Ford Automatic trans that use the Type F are loose tolerance units, with lower pressures than the GM and high performance Ford trans which used very tight clearances and higher pressures.

Dextron and Mercon have proprotionately, fewer of the longer self liking chains than Type F. That is why Dextron feels and pours differently than Type F. Like sugar water and molasses. They taste similar but are different.

You have forgot one item of difference between a manual trans and automatic trans that dictates which fluid to use.

The PUMP. If you have a fluid that does not like to cling and allows it self to be squeezed out as Dextron does, you compensate by putting the fluid under pressure. Like the oil in the motor, it is under constant pressure, even the synthetics, to prevent such squeeze out. Last I looked, the manual trans is lubed by fluid clinging to and getting carried from one gear to another. No pump that I am aware of for the gears.

I will grant you that any Ford auto trans that has been rebuilt with newer parts that have closer tolerances and fit, can use the Dextron. That trans has a pump. Rebuild a manual trans to the same increase in tolerances and fill it with Dextron in my opinion will create a friction heater directly under the shift lever that will burn itself up in 10 to 20 thousand miles. Fill it with Type F after the same rebuild and the same will occur. The Type F will not be able to get to the places it needs to lube since it cannot fit.

Duane

We aren't talking lubricity and Ford AT's here....we're talking cone clutch in the OD and synchros in the M46 tranny.
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http://www.fidalgo.net/~brook4/oilslubesfilters.html

So why are you so keen on Ford ATF? The British designed OD can use engine oil, and synchro rings don't much care about which ATF either. The Ford spec oil is for old Ford spec automatics - why bother with that in a Volvo?

It's not me that's "keen" on Type F. Volvo continues to recommend it and I'm thinking you should search for the posts from the fellows that had problems with Dexron in M46's.
--
http://www.fidalgo.net/~brook4/oilslubesfilters.html

Are you listening??

The overdrive in the M46 will choke on Dexron/Mercon. In fact, if you RTFM as Paul suggests, you will discover that Volvo recommends ATF exclusively.

(Are you the same fellow who claimed to be a tech. in a previous thread on oils?)

I am indeed the same fellow. And to save further angst, I give up. I will continue to do what I have done successfully with these transmissions for years, but I think this discussion should come to an end.

"I am indeed the same fellow"

Scary. And one of the many reasons why I embrace the "DIY" philosophy whenever possible.

"I will continue to do what I have done successfully with these transmissions for years"

Do us all a favor, please. Click on the "archives" link at the bottom of this page, and do a search for "M46 fluid." Specifically, take a look at this thread.

Then, pick up the phone and call any competent Volvo garage and ask to speak to the "head tech." Ask him if it is advisable to use Dextron or Mercon in an M46/M47 Volvo transmission. I've been told, very emphatically, by numerous techs (dealer + indy. garages), to never use anything other than Type 'F' or its equivalents in the M46.

If you want to experiment with your own car, fine. But if folks are entrusting you with their vehicles, and you are installing fluids that are not recommended by Volvo, then something is very wrong. I personally would be quite upset if I paid you to do work on my car, and you pulled something like this.

Have a good day. ;-)

-=Bob=-

Hi Bob;

My purpose here is not to upset anyone, and certainly I will not be condescending, or patronizing or assume a lack of knowledge on the part of others.

However, since my last post I put a new clutch in a lovely old 1966 122S owned by a customer of mine for over 15 years. In 1989 I rebuilt his M40 transmission and filled it with - guess what - Dexron ATF. The same oil Mercedes Benz began to use in their manual transmissions in 1955. That M40 I lifted in and out today has covered over 110,000 miles since I first filled it with Dexron. It is still quiet and smooth. It doesn't even leak. The synchros work well, as they do mostly in those excellent old gearboxes.

I will not participate in a mud slinging competition. I have read the post you directed me to. I have been listening. I simply offer what I know, given my experience with and research into the cars we all enjoy so much. I pass no judgement on others.

Rhys

One question, did Mercedes Benz specify Dexron in their owners manuals for the 1955 maunaul transmissions?

Duane

As far as I know, no, in that ATF had yet to be differentiated. I think GM issued the Dexron type spec in the early 60's, about the time Ford specified a fluid for their transmissions. I had a 1962 Mercedes for a while, and the only shop manual I had for it was an older original German one printed in 1959. It said simply automatic transmission fluid (oel). They had been specifying ATF for a few years by that point.

"My purpose here is not to upset anyone, and certainly I will not be condescending, or patronizing or assume a lack of knowledge on the part of
others."

I readily admit that I was very rude in my last post...I'm very embarrassed about that and extend my sincerest apologies. That post became far more personal that it ever should have.

"since my last post I put a new clutch in a lovely old 1966 122S owned by a customer of mine for over 15 years. In 1989 I rebuilt his M40 transmission and filled it with - guess what - Dexron ATF. The same oil Mercedes Benz began to use in their manual transmissions in 1955. That M40 I lifted in and out today has covered over 110,000 miles since I first filled it with Dexron. It is still quiet and smooth."

Sounds like a beautiful car, and I have absolutely no doubts that Dexron works well in an M40, but the M46 is a completely different gearbox, and one that was not designed with Dexron or Mercon in mind.

Have you ever filled an M46 with Dexron? If so, what were the (long-term) results?

Take care.
-=Bob=-

Thanks Bob - I appreciate your comments very much.
I have used both types of ATF in those transmissions. Mostly because the quickie-lube oil change places seem to top them up with 80W-90 ( the smell reveals the contamination ). So I drain them and refill with ATF, usually Dexron. So far I have not noticed any long term problems, and as you can tell, I have had some customers for years. The intial lock-up of the overdirve is the give-away - if it is prolonged to any extent, then the oil in use is causing slippage. The only time I have noticed prolonged lock-up is when the oil in the trans is substantially 80W-90 EP (extreme pressure for hypoid differentials).
Volvo automatics of the 60's and 70's did require type F ATF, especially the BW35 in the 120-140-160 series cars. I suspect, and this is just my opinion, that the owners manuals reflect the dealer service guides, in that the dealers were expected to stock only one kind of ATF, with preference to that needed in the auto boxes. Therefore, the type specified for the manuals was also F to avoid confusion and the stocking of other types. Some manuals even refer to a type G ATF in the early 80's, which is some European designation which I have been unable to get any info about in North America.
I'm sure that we both agree that Joe has a nice car, and that we are trying to advise him about keeping it going as long as Volvos should.
Like when I tell my customers only half jokingly, "Man's only defence against entropy is preventative maintenance!"
Rhys

I am not feeling much Volvo love here . . . .

Lighten up, gentlemen.


--Joe HC
--
1977 244, B21F engine, 140K, "carlsbad yellow", IPD anti-sway bars, Minneapolis, MN

we love each other, we want all to have the good knowledge...uh, that's why we argue...sorta like sibling rivalry...I guess....
--
http://www.fidalgo.net/~brook4/oilslubesfilters.html

Oh,it DOES make a difference which fluid you use.

Your trans needs Type F ATF ONLY. Your northern location and winter eliminates the 30W oil option since you regularly get below the 10 C low point for the oil option.

Dextron or Mercon ATF is NOT usable in manual transmissions not designed for that fluid. It does not have the resistance to "squeeze out" or the "cling" necessary to stay between the gears as they mesh. You will end up with metal on metal as you drive, increasing wear and heat. The heat will eventually deteriorate the fluid so it no longer lubes well. After that point is reached, the tranny will go down hill fast.

The only gasket is the one for the Overdrive since it shares fluid with the trans. The only filter is for the overdrive and needs a "special" wrench with pins on it to remove the plug to access it once the OD pan is off. That filter is metal mesh and can be washed with mineral spirits or kerosene.

Duane

Thanks for the compliment on the car. I'll poke around today to see if I can find the area that you are talking about regarding the clutch.

COmpletely off the subject, yesterday I spent 1 hour at the car store looking for a good wax, and then 3 hours waxing it up. I have never had the desire to keep a car in good shape, both aesthetically and mechanically before. But I seem to be "obsessing" with the brick. Does anyone else have this "sickness" (according to my wife)?


--Joe HC
--
1977 244, B21F engine, 140K, "carlsbad yellow", IPD anti-sway bars, Minneapolis, MN

Hey Joe,

Polished and waxed 2 bricks in two days. Tis the season, I guess.

Also off subject, the experiment with the junkyard exhaust gas analyzer failed miserably. I would have emailed you, but current browser won't show me your email address unless I fill in a configuration questionnaire, so I just posted to the old thread The Old Thread .
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Art-

I am sorry to hear that your experiment failed. I wish that I can be at a level of confidence someday where I can experiment with the brick; now it is just trying to figure it out. Fyi, I have had it since Sept.

Today, I spent half the day trying to track down a thump and squeek coming from my passenger rear area. I can reproduce it; I am thinking that I didn't tighten the rear control arm bushing bolt enough.

Getting back to the subject, I am trying to figure out how to adjust the fuel/air mixture. My green manual (thank you ebay) says that i need a special diagnosis tool. Something that will read the O2 level coming out of the tailpipe. I need guidance on the tool, or a work around. How do you adjust the mixture? I am thinking that I need to do this before I leave (I am going back east to pick up a 145), since my brick is eating alot of gas.

Thanks-

Joe HC
--
1977 244, B21F engine, 140K, "carlsbad yellow", IPD anti-sway bars, Minneapolis, MN

>How do you adjust the mixture?

Right now I'm not the guy to ask -- I stick a 3mm allen tool in the airflow sensor mixture screw and back it out a quarter turn, remove the tool, blip the throttle and quit backing out when the idle rpm drops. Then I start enriching it a quarter turn at a time to find the range of adjustment. My strategy is to leave it a bit to the rich side of the center where the rpm is highest. This is NOT the correct way to set mixture; the correct way requires a CO analyzer, like it describes in the green manual. My strategy may change considerably when I return from the emissions test!

Click the envelope to send me an email, and I'll reply with a page from another manual that goes into more detail.

Fact is, this mixture adjustment is most relevant to idle. Gas mileage for idle is zero anyway. Using a lot of gas could be caused by a leaking cold start injector or fuel pressure being way out of whack.

My daughter likes the car in your picture.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore