Hi,

I now have a little over 1000 km on my rebuilt B230FT. It currently has Penzoil 10W30 dino oil in it that was changed (along with the filter) when the engine had around 300 km on it. I am planning to switch the engine to Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic 10W30 at some point, I'm just not sure when to do so. My mechanic isn't sure either because he has little experience with synthetics. I was thinking about changing the oil again soon, using Penzoil dino and then switching to Mobil 1 when the engine has about 5K km on it. Is a good idea, should I wait 10-20K km, OR should I switch it sooner? The more opinions the better! I want to do what's best for my new engine so that it will live a long, strong and healthy life. Oh, and I don't know if it makes any difference, but the turbo is orignial as far as I know and has been using dino oil for just over 261K km. Thanks in advance for the advise.
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.

How timely. I just got my 940 turbo back three days ago w/a brand new reman engine. The engine rebuilder (Recon) recommends a 500 mile break in and then
changing the oil. I filled it w/15-40 Pennzoil but intend to switch it to
Mobile One after the break in period. Almost 500 miles now and no oil consumption yet. The opinions here have me really confused. Dino goo for 10K or change to synthetic @500 miles?

New engine too eh? :) What year is your 940T? Wagon or sedan? Mileage? What happened to your last engine? The opinions here have me confused a little as well. It's sort of what I expected. I have read all the opinions and reasoning and I'm pretty sure that I'm going to run the new engine on dino oil for 5-10K km (3-6K mi) before switching to Mobil 1. My guess right now is that I'll end up switching after about 6-7K km. I figure that by then the engine will be broken in sufficiently to accecpt the synthetic and be happy. I changed my oil when the engine had ~300 km on it and it now has ~1200 km. So, in ~900 km I have not noticed any oil consumption. I'll probably have the oil changed again tomorrow, and then in 3K km and then 3K km after that I'll switch to Mobil 1. From what you have read does this sound like a good plan to you? I plan to change the Mobil 1 every 5-8K km thereafter. Enjoy your new engine! :)
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 261K km.

You can change now. Your rings are seated. The other "new" parts from the rebuild will "break-in" rather quickly. Takes a little longer in a brand new engine but not much...500 miles vs. 1000 or so for a new engine.

Your engine needed a rebuild at around 150,000 miles, but the turbo is original. I don't get it - did the car overheat?
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http://www.fidalgo.net/~brook4/oilslubesfilters.html

My engine didn't NEED a rebuild (it actually had almost 163K mi). I sent it in for a new head gasket, rear main, and a few other things and my dad decided that it was time to have it rebuilt. I think it had the worst case of piston slap I had ever heard. It didn't matter weather it was cold or warm, it slapped quite loudly below 1500 RPM. It drove me crazy! It was a little worse when the engine was cold, but it was loud when the engine was warm as well. The valves were within spec according to my mechanic. Also, it was using 2+ liters of oil between oil changes (5K km). Oil was leaking out from many of the seals and the compression wasn't the best. I was going to run the engine for another 50-100K km, which my mechanic felt it could do, but he said that it would be all down hill. I bought the car with 241K km (150K mi) last fall and it was slapping bad then and was using around 3 liters between oil changes until I had some seals replaced. This way I shouldn't have to worry about the engine for the rest of the car's life as long as I take good care of it. After the turbo was removed my mechanic checked the play in the shaft and it seemed to be in fine shape, so we just cleaned it, and bolted it on to the rebuilt engine. Although, we had to make a adjustment with the wastegate. It seems as though the mitsu gen IIIs have a problem where over time the sleve for the wastegate rod sinks down (hot/cold cycle) and makes it so that the wastegate door cannot close properly. My mechanic called a company (forget their name) that specializes in turbo rebuilding in California (I think) and they told him that it was a common problem with the gen IIIs. He was told to just remove the rod and give the sleve a few taps to put it back in place. The turbo seems to be boosting fine and I hope it continues to do so for a long time. Oh, one more thing; my new engine is still tickey/slappy until the engnie is up to temperature. It's not nearly as bad as before, but it is noticable. My mechanic is hopeing that it's the valves and he is going to take the camshaft out on Tuesday and replace the "valve silencers" and check the valve adjustment.We're just hoping that it's not piston slap! If it is, should I be worried about it getting worse, or should I just not worry about it becomming an issue?.................. I posted asking about this last week and recieved a FEW responses, but they didn't completely answer my questions. Since then I have more then doubled the mileage on the engine and the sound has not seemed to become worse. Anyway, I didn't mean for the post to be this long, but I had to explain a few things :)
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.

If you wish you can refer to what a petroleum engineer advises about converting to synthetic oil in a new or rebuilt engine. Convert in 500 (five hundred) miles.

Refer to: "http://syntheticoiltech.com/oil/edpayne/convertingtoamsoil.htm"

This sight contains a lot of useful information that counteracts those who may be living in a world of the past.

Lubricants in the scheme of auto ownership, which includes but not limited to:

Initial investment, upkeep, gasoline (the big one), insurance (the second biggest one depending on who you are, where you live, and how much you drive), damage repairs, etc. is almost a pittance.

Good REAL synthetic lubricants far outweigh what they cost, in increased economy and better service.

Some people are just not aware. Knowledge is always a good thing.

I'm puzzled where some people are getting the idea that synthetics should not be used in a new engine until it is "broken in". Porsche, Corvette, and some other very high-priced, high performance makers use it right off the assembly line, brand new! Are their engineers wrong? - hardly. You can start using the synthetic anytime now. Mobil suggest the 5W30 grade for newer engines. And use a decent oil filter - ie: NOT a Fram. Get a Purolator, or a "NAPA Gold" - or a Mann from one of the advertisers on the banners on this Board.

If you go to the Mobil 1 website you'll find that they are candid about the need for their product in cases where you do not have severe or unusual driving conditions, and where you change your oil frequently - they advise that you DON'T need a synthetic. Given your intent to change every 5000km, you are probably wasting money. Go to 10 or even 15,000km and the Mobil 1 starts to make economic sense. Also less waste oil and filters being put into the environment. Of course if you are doing mainly short trips and in cold weather - ignore the above extended change suggestion.

I use Mobil 1 in all my vehicles, (2 motorcycles and 4 family cars). Not cheap, but I stretch the oil changes WAY out.

There is no problem changing to synthetic in a factory-new or factory remanufactured engine. The tolerances used in the assembly procedure are such that the engine is generally seated in by the time it comes off the showroom floor. I usually recommend waiting for at least 1500-3000 miles simply to insure that everything was put together properly at the factory.

However, a locally redone engine generally won't be assembled within the same tolerances. In this case, the rings may not seat for a while. Putting in synthetic oil can greatly prolong the seating process, because of the reduced friction. Worst case--some increased oil consumption (maybe for 10-15,000 miles), a more blowby, maybe a bit less horsepower. And the user may then decide that synthetics obviously don't work.

Thanks for the input Dick. What you have said makes sense. How long do you suggest I wait before switching to synthetic? 5K km? 10K km? I don't want to be disappointed with synthetics and I certainly don't want to be disappointed with my new engine!
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.

Thanks for the input Volvodad. I visited the Mobil 1 site the other day and read most of what they have to say. I did read the list of new cars that use synthetic straight from the factory. Cool. I don't think I'll be using 5W30 though; my mechanic feels that it's too thin (for any car) and my Volvo manual recommends 10W30. I ALWAYS use a MANN filter. If my mechanic doesn't have one, I tell him to order one and I'll be back tomorrow (it happened once :) He once put a Mopar filter on because he didn't have a MANN for my Vo. I showed up the next day with a Volvo filter in my hand and we swapped them :) I checked the other day and I can get 5L (or 4L) of Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic at Wal-Mart for $25.40 CDN + tax. That means that an oil change with synthetic would only cost me $5-10 more per change then dino Penzoil. Not bad eh? My mechanic said that at that price I should go for it and change my oil every 5-8K km. He said it would be fine to go by my service light (8K km) using synthetic.........
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.

yeah, i don't know where that comes from either. motor oil (any kind) cause rubber seals to decay/shrink. if someone were to see oil consumption on their car after a rebuild, wouldn't it only get worse with time, especially with a dino oil? synthetics produce less wear on the seals if i'm not mistaken.

hmmm...
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Kenric Tam
1990 Volvo 740 base sedan (B230F)
My Volvo 'Project'
(Page is back up!)

You can change at any point you are satisfied that oil consumption, if any, has stabilized.
If there is any doubt, just run a good non-synthetic for the first 5,000km or so before changing to synthetic.

Thanks for the advise. I have not yet noticed any oil consumption (I just checked it), but I'll be cautious and wait somewhere between 5-15K km before switching.........
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.

personally, i'm of the belief that using synthetic immediately after purchasing a vehicle is fine, even if it's straight from the dealer right out of the factory. i don't see why you would or should have an issues with it.

even breaking in the engine by driving slowly for the first 3K miles i don't strongly believe in because, as many people will tell you, new cars nowadays are manufactured much more precisely and to much tighter constraints, so that the breakin period isn't really necessary. that was what the break in period was all about 'back in the day': allowing the metal/seals to wear down a bit and settle in, etc. due to slight manufacturing imperfections.

i suppose your case is slightly different, being that an engine rebuild was done and your vehicle isn't new, but i don't see any reason why you can't just put synthetic in immediately.
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Kenric Tam
1990 Volvo 740 base sedan (B230F)
My Volvo 'Project'
(Page is back up!)

Hmmmmmmmmm....at least it can't hurt the engine to run it's first 8-16K km (5-10K mi) on dino oil and then switch to synthetic, can it???? I could do that just to be safe considering the opinions I've read so far...........
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.

No, of course not. I doubt running on dino for 10K miles will seriously impact your engine's well being.

...

Unless you drive like a raving lunatic (or idiot) ;-)
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Kenric Tam
1990 Volvo 740 base sedan (B230F)
My Volvo 'Project'
(Page is back up!)

Yeah, that's what I thought. Thanks for the input. I'll probably run Penzoil dino oil in it until it has 8-16K km (5-10K mi) on it just to be safe. I'll change the oil every 3-4K km with the dino oil and probably every 5K km after I switch to Mobil 1.
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.

Once you use synthetic oil, all break in of the piston rings stops. Don't switch until oil consumption has stabilized. I personally would not switch before 10,000 miles. Piston ircraft usually run break in oil until about 30 to 50 hours of use at 75% power. Fifty hours of driving at 60 mph would be 3000 miles, so that would be acceptable to aircraft standards. Be sure to use plenty of power (higher speeds) if you can safely in order to keep the piston rings working tightly to the cylinder bores.
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john

I agree with John Sargent! I have been flying piston aircraft for 18 years and any rebuilt engine, factory or local require breaking in with mineral oil and maintaining 75% power for the first 50 hours. The piston engine aircraft manufacturers (Lycoming and Continental) have a huge liability involved with their products. You don't trust your life or others to anecdotal speculation as to whether synthetic or dino is better for break in. I know that the engineers of these extemely well built and extensively tested motors are tested to higher standards than the automotive industry. Use the dino oil that volvo recommends and then change when broken in. Very simple.
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92 244 lowered, Bilsteins, IPD sways, Unitek cam/header, TSW Revo 18x8's - 94 965 MONEY PIT! - 76 Datsun 280Z lowered, modified head, cam, headers, intake

What are you flying? I am sitting behind a factroy reman O-470S in a C-182D. I'd send a picture, but my computer is down.
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john

I fly a Challenger 600, Sabreliner 40, and sometimes a C-T210. Hope to be in the Gulfstream II in the next few months.
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92 244 lowered, Bilsteins, IPD sways, Unitek cam/header, TSW Revo 18x8's - 94 965 MONEY PIT! - 76 Datsun 280Z lowered, modified head, cam, headers, intake

No twin or turbine ratings here.
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john

Thanks for the quick response John. I have not yet noticed ANY oil consumption. We changed the oil the at the beginning of the week when the engine had about 300 km on it and then the next day I took my Vo on a ~350 km (one way) road trip that was almost all hwy driving at between 90-140 kph (55-90 mph). I turned off OD once in a while while passing during the trip so that the engine would rev to around 4-5K RPM. Then we spent a couple days driving it on short little trips around a small village and then this afternoon we drove back home at the same speeds as before. It has not yet seemed to use any noticeable amount of oil (I'll check it again tomorrow morning).........
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Chris. Halifax N.S. '91 745Ti, 260K km.