The subject line says it all. Trying to add some toys to the 242
and something goes amiss like it tends to... grr. ah well.

Removed the gallery plug in the back of the head to install an oil temperature sender from a vw GTI. threaded in just fine, although it looked to have a sealing washer and didnt feel like it was getting tight. then it got really loose, the hex head broke off and left the threaded section in there.
I would prefer to remove it and put the plug back in to make sure it seals and I dont lose oil out of it, cuz that would be a massive leak if it did.

There is just a bit of metal on the outside, not enough to grab onto though.

As one would imagine there it not much room back there for tools.

Options I have thought about:
Remove that piece (somehow) and replace with what was there.
If it comes down to it, remove engine or head and remove that piece.
JB weld. (does this stuff ever come off again?)

here in lies the dilemma. The engine has 15k miles on it since rebuild (not by me). so I dont really want to remove the engine, or head as that would be much time consuming and doesnt seem like the best option to me. although I am hesitant about using jb weld on this, as I have not before and would like to be able to remove it again if necessary.

thanks
take care

Luke
82 242Ti 169k miles

beating self on head for not leaving well enough alone.

Here's what I would do. Yank the head, no big task at all, one major gasket, and a waterpump o-ring. That will allow you to repair this thing properly, without standing on your head and worrying for the next five years.

It is just a gallery plug so drill it out and tap it for 5/16 fine or whatever oversize you need, and loctite a bolt with a copper washer into it. Before doing that, remove the plug from the front of the head, and blow compressed air right through it. That will remove any debris garanteed.

By the way, the oil temp you would have measured had this worked out in the first place would have been the temperature of the head itself, and not the oil. Oil temp can only be taken from the fluid itself, so as suggested a fitting in the side of the pan, immersed in oil, or the stock and exposed drain plug type.

Don't even think about JB Weld. Fix it properly.

You know, you could just put a little piece on the back of the head "to hold the rear cam plug in", but make it bigger so goes over the sender part as well. Then the plug can't come out. And the piece of sender can't come out either because your plate will be in the way. As long as it doesn't leak oil through the threads (not likely) it should be fine.

Otherwise you can try a right angle air drill or something, maybe with a left hand drill bit. Or try and JB weld a driver bit on there to back it out with. Or slot the top with a little grinder wheel.

With this kind of thing, I'd be the first to say sleep on it, and come back to the project when you get inspired. Otherwise it's goign to be a nonstop battle to fix it, and it's going to suck.
--
Chris Herbst, in Wisconsin.

Back to square one.
The sender piece that is in there leaks. Some, only left engine running for about 2-3 minutes or so. Everything I wiped my finger or put a clean section of rag on there it would get oily. Wonderful...

Makes me wonder why I even bothered in the first place. Kinda screwed myself over with this one.

Got a few screw extractors from the store, going to have to cut them down to see if they fit. its too bad they dont make 90 degree ones, or ones that are shorter.

thanks
take care

Luke

with a repair that is a bit over my head if involves removing head, turbo/mani and more.

"You know, you could just put a little piece on the back of the head "to hold the rear cam plug in", but make it bigger so goes over the sender part as well. Then the plug can't come out. And the piece of sender can't come out either because your plate will be in the way. As long as it doesn't leak oil through the threads (not likely) it should be fine. "

Good point on the plate to hold the sender part in. I figured it would not leak through the threads, but was concerned about the heat cycles that might cause it to come loose/leak/go into oil gallery.

"Otherwise you can try a right angle air drill or something, maybe with a left hand drill bit. Or try and JB weld a driver bit on there to back it out with. Or slot the top with a little grinder wheel. "

Interesting, right angle air drill idea. I wonder if they make any left hand drill bits for dremels, as I have a dremel and a flex shaft although I dont think there is enough room for even that. Good idea on the JB weld, I had thought about that too. Or even make a small piece of metal just slightly smaller than the ID and use permatex to seal it on the sender piece and try to wrench it out.

"With this kind of thing, I'd be the first to say sleep on it, and come back to the project when you get inspired. Otherwise it's goign to be a nonstop battle to fix it, and it's going to suck. "

Agreed. It has been slept on for 2 days now, it happened the day after christmas. I am inspired to get it done, but want to get it done right the first time. I hope it doesnt leak past the threads, as then I can move it to our shop instead of garage where parents park and be less worried about it.
have even thought of picking up another car to tool around in, remove the engine, find leaks and other misc stuff on it, although that would not be the best or smartest option I think.

thanks as always!
take care
happy new year

Luke

Art has it right--if it's leaking past the threads, it HAS to be pretty loose in there.

I see what's happening. The sender ripped off at the top part while the bottom kept threading happily down. Since it's well lubed (is this a good thing?) it HAS to be pretty easy to get out...

But there is SUCH little room back there...

I wonder...

Could you drill through the firewall from the inside? I'm trying to figure out where it sits in relation to the heater box. If it's above the heater box, you could probably drill through the firewall to get that stupid thing out, then put a grommet/plug in it's place. I mean, it would be a hell of a lot easier than yanking out the head or the engine. And risking breaking more stuff in the process.

If you can make a little dimple for reference in the firewall, and can see that dimple from outside (or inside depending on which side you make the mark) then you can figure out if that could work. You could do most of that from either under the hood or through that center "speaker" grill at the top of the dash.

But that involves making a hole in the firewall. Which is a little bit of a negative. The positive is it avoids tearing apart your new engine.

Dash in/dash out, 1 hour or so, total. That should give you all the room you need. If the thing is accessible from that direction, that is.
--
Chris Herbst, in Wisconsin.

"Art has it right--if it's leaking past the threads, it HAS to be pretty loose in there. "

I would agree, and I sure hope it does. Drove it 1.5 miles or so to our shop, and it seemed to loose quite a bit of oil. I was very easy on it, and tried to keep oil pressure from rising due to increasing engine speed.

"I see what's happening. The sender ripped off at the top part while the bottom kept threading happily down. Since it's well lubed (is this a good thing?) it HAS to be pretty easy to get out... "

You nailed it from what I can tell. all the guts of the sender are gone,
it is just the threaded section in there. I would imagine it would be pretty easy to get out.

"Could you drill through the firewall from the inside? I'm trying to figure out where it sits in relation to the heater box. If it's above the heater box, you could probably drill through the firewall to get that stupid thing out, then put a grommet/plug in it's place. I mean, it would be a hell of a lot easier than yanking out the head or the engine. And risking breaking more stuff in the process. "

I had thought about that also. Hopefully if that is required there is easy access to where I need to go through the firewall. Agreed on not risking breaking something else in process of taking the head off. Heck, I removed and replaced the vacuum lines and intake manifold gasket and LOST 2" of vacuum. How that happens I have no cluse, especially since it idles much better too. strange.

"If you can make a little dimple for reference in the firewall, and can see that dimple from outside (or inside depending on which side you make the mark) then you can figure out if that could work. You could do most of that from either under the hood or through that center "speaker" grill at the top of the dash. "

good thoughts there!


"But that involves making a hole in the firewall. Which is a little bit of a negative. The positive is it avoids tearing apart your new engine. "

agreed on those positives and negatives. Could always spot weld that hole too or something later on. I plan on keeping this car for long time, slowly working the bugs out of it, while hopefully avoiding making my own bugs on it in the future!

------

One of my current thoughts is, take one of the ez outs that I specifically bought for this, heat it with a propane torch that I bought and bend part of it 90 degrees to form a screw extractor that would fit this purpose. If this actually happpens, I will see tomorrow!
Many options will be tried tomorrow!

thank you much everyone!

take care
Luke
82 242Ti 169k miles

"One of my current thoughts is, take one of the ez outs that I specifically bought for this, heat it with a propane torch that I bought and bend part of it 90 degrees to form a screw extractor that would fit this purpose."

I can save you the trouble and frustration; you won't be able to bend an easy out. If you can't cut the tool, you might be able to fashion something of mild steel with sharp edges something like a spade wood bit, but in reverse-- short enough to handle behind there. You must have an inch or so if the sensor could be started in. It might even be loose enough where you could whittle something of wood that would jam inside the remnant. Heck, I'd start with an ice cream stick!
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

You are right Chris, Luke should sleep on it. Another good point you make is the gallery pressure might not make it past the threads anyway, but if it does the remnant of the sender ought to come out pretty easily then.

He could clean the wound and bandage it, checking the bandage from trip to trip for bleeding. (Paper towel and duct tape?)

--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

Any chance of getting an EZ-out into what's left? Without seeing your sender, my guess is that it's not a real solid thing, but rather a copper-jacketed affair swaged into a brass or steel plug which has the threads. Assuming you didn't use gorilla-level torque to install it, the Ez-out should work. You don't want to pierce the piece that's left, though, since that would risk putting swarf into the oil line.

FWIW, the Volvo oil temp sender mounts via the drain plug - a little vulnerable in my book, though. Given the time and shop resources, I think I would modify the oil pan by welding a fitting onto the side (probably the intake side to avoid exhaust manifold) to accommodate the temp sender. Next time the engine comes out, that is .

One thought I had to give yourself a little working space without dropping the engine is maybe to pull the front engine mounts and lower the front of the engine a couple of inches. Since the trans mount would still be in place you don't want to lever the shifter into the trans tunnel, so great care would have to be taken. I'm also not sure how low the engine can go before it runs into the crossmember or other interference occurs. Just a random thought as I sip coffee 3000 miles away...

Good luck!

"Any chance of getting an EZ-out into what's left? Without seeing your sender, my guess is that it's not a real solid thing, but rather a copper-jacketed affair swaged into a brass or steel plug which has the threads. Assuming you didn't use gorilla-level torque to install it, the Ez-out should work. You don't want to pierce the piece that's left, though, since that would risk putting swarf into the oil line. "

That was my thought, getting an EZ-out on there.
You are correct on thoughts about the senders construction. The guts of the sender are gone. The threaded section is still in there. Didnt feel like I had gorilla-level torque on it, althought it could be in there for good unless I have direct access to it. Agreed on not wanting to piercing what is in there.

I am going to turn the engine on to see if it leaks, although I dont know if I should leave it like that. I dont think it is a good idea to leave it in there like that.

"FWIW, the Volvo oil temp sender mounts via the drain plug - a little vulnerable in my book, though. Given the time and shop resources, I think I would modify the oil pan by welding a fitting onto the side (probably the intake side to avoid exhaust manifold) to accommodate the temp sender. Next time the engine comes out, that is. "

agreed on the vulnerable stock sender. That is why I tried this one in the back of the head, looking back dumb move on my part. Yes, that sender would be a good one. Be cool to get a dual function one, level and temp.

"One thought I had to give yourself a little working space without dropping the engine is maybe to pull the front engine mounts and lower the front of the engine a couple of inches. Since the trans mount would still be in place you don't want to lever the shifter into the trans tunnel, so great care would have to be taken. I'm also not sure how low the engine can go before it runs into the crossmember or other interference occurs. Just a random thought as I sip coffee 3000 miles away... "

Good thinking on dropping the crossmember! I wonder if that would stretch the radiator and other hoses enough to damage them...

thanks
take care

Luke

No, I don't have a picture of this...

" Just a random thought as I sip coffee 3000 miles away... "

Coffee's gone now, but the effects linger, so I was following your thoughts. There's not a lot of room to the crossmember, but it might make the difference between getting something in place or not.

The something I imagine is way too long to stuff in there without trimming - something like a #4 easy out. Just armchair mechanics mind you, but I figure I'd be cutting the sharp end off the easy out and probably expending several carbide dremel wheels in the process, so I'd have to be real finicky about knowing where to cut it relative to the ID of the chunk of sender in there and the depth to the closed end. Then I'd hope it was short enough to get between head and firewall without trimming the other end and having to use a vise grip on the hardened smooth OD of the easyout. I'm pretty certain this sender would be made of soft metal.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"The something I imagine is way too long to stuff in there without trimming - something like a #4 easy out. Just armchair mechanics mind you, but I figure I'd be cutting the sharp end off the easy out and probably expending several carbide dremel wheels in the process, so I'd have to be real finicky about knowing where to cut it relative to the ID of the chunk of sender in there and the depth to the closed end. Then I'd hope it was short enough to get between head and firewall without trimming the other end and having to use a vise grip on the hardened smooth OD of the easyout. I'm pretty certain this sender would be made of soft metal. "

That was my thought too. Trim some kind of ez out to get in there, then using a wrench to turn the ez out. There is not much room between the head and firewall. Agreed, it looks like the sender is soft metal, brass variety.

thanks again

Luke

kicking self yet again, at least it is winter break between terms but still...

If for nothing else, this shows the ture value of this website-not only what to do but WHAT NOT TO DO !!! Seriously !!