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Art - exhaust sucks...or is that blows...
Anyhow, my only .02$ (US) is to jam "filler" in that gap between the standorf and the pipe bracket spacer, maybe a stack 'o warshers and some shim stock (with appropriate hole)for a tight fit....
--
http://www.fidalgo.net/~brook4/oilslubesfilters.html
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I'm with you Pablo. That car's my favorite, although my youngest kid is using it while we look for a replacement 240. I'm glad to remove the source of gaseous discharge for now, and will cut and drill a piece of 1/4 x 3/4 bar stock to jam in there and pick up the second long bolt (only had one). To me, it was clearly a workmanship issue that seems incongruent with the Country of Origin = SE sticker.
There's some interesting stuff on Bosal's history here and the company itself on its web site has some catalog views of replacement exhausts for Volvo.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
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I Have Starla on both of my 240s at the moment. The systems are holding up well so far. As far as I know I have no choice on my Turbo because Bosal no longer makes exaust parts for them. Its either Volvo or Starla. Up here in salty Nova Scotia they all rot out so I generally get the cheapest system possible. The difference between a cheap system and a good one is a few months here. If I get 2 years out of an axel pipe/rear muffler I am doing well.
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So if it is environmental, does it mostly rust from the outside? Yeah, I know it rusts from both sides, but I think most of my parts croak where the water collects on the inside, especially on the short trip vehicles.
Is the salt mostly from the coastal air or are you talking road salt?
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
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Salt air and road salt. Mostly internal rust, because they "aluminize" the outside of the pipes these days. Always breaks in the joint between the axel pipe and the rear muffler first, but the rest of the system from the cat back is not far behind.
I don't know, maybe it is the colder temperatures and more internal condensation, but I get really frustrated when I hear people on the board complaining that their system only lasted 7 years. I wish I knew their secret.
I don't know how long the Starla is going to last. At nearly a year the system on the NA 240 still looks pretty good, has the right sound, etc.
I also think the tailpipes are too long on many of the aftermarket systems. This results in the pipe hitting coming in and out of driveways, stressing the joint that always breaks.
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I just installed manifold back to axle pipe from FCP on my 89. Everything Bosal, except for the front muffler, which is Starla (Walker after the paper label came off).
Guess where the only leak was?
Had to put some sealer where the muffler/cat pipe joined, and never did suss out why it didn't seal, because when I laid the parts next to the old ones they were the same in every way.
There was a slight flare in the muffler side of the slots of the muffler coupling, and that's where the exhaust was coming out. The cat pipe could have come back further and that would have helped, but the old parts were the same length.
The only difference was that my old downpipe had the O2 sensor in it, and the new one didn't, the o2 sensor had to go in the cat pipe (turns out there are a few 89's that have the o2 sensor in the downpipe, and FCP has adjusted their website accordingly).
The Bosal downpipe is quite stoutly made, btw. I just ran a bolt from through the top of the mount, and it's very solid.
The Volvo pipe lasted 216k, and the mount rotted off about 50k ago, so it was suspended by the cat and the manifold. It would still be perfectly usable, but I got decided to make the O2 sensor replacement easier by replacing the pipe as well, since the sensor was original as well, AFAIK.
The PO had installed cat-back at some point, and the installer had used something that was red and clearish. It sealed, but didn't stick hard to the pipe.
I couldn't find anything like that, anyone know what it might have been? I ended up using something that is more like furnace cement.
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Hope was, someone would answer about the red exhaust sealant-- no I haven't seen that. I've never used any sealant when assembling pipes, though I recall some was shipped with either a Starla or Bosal cat-back kit. I think it was the white crumbly stuff that reminds me of some cement found in the construction of portable soldering iron tips.
I do remember having the same difficulty at the head end of the front muffler. Problem seemed to be in the depth the slots were cut as in how far toward the muffler from the end. The cat pipe did not want to extend much further than the end of those slots. Trouble is, my recollection is clouded by the last trouble I had where I wound up crushing the cat pipe before realizing it had become very thin. Had to use my cheesy sears (Lisle) expander to make it fit to the new cat pipe.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
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Yeah, I've been using Bosal stuff for a while. It seems to be the aftermarket brand of choice among job shops. Nice stuff.
I've had very decent luck with Starla parts, though I can't directly comment on the downpipe because most of the aftermarket ones seem to be Bosal.
Volvo's systems have been highly overrated, as the newer stuff is rotting as fast as anything else. It used to be that if you bought a Volvo system, you got ten years out of it. The last Volvo muffler setup I paid for lasted less than three years. It might actually have been two. Obviously the quality of their mufflers isn't what it used to be, at least for some of the RWD cars. Maybe the FWD product is still very good--I'm not sure and it's going to be hard to say until the RWD exhausts are rotten. Should see a lot of them starting to fall apart in the next year or so.
However, the downpipes might still be very good quality. Or maybe Volvo is going the cheap route with that too. I would not believe it if Volvo said their suppliers are still sourcing the same quality mufflers and exhaust pipes as they were six or seven years ago. Because that stuff would last in ANY climate, for a LONG time.
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Chris Herbst, in Wisconsin.
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In the last few years I've sprung for two cat-back systems from Volvo. The first amazed me with how well it fit and how quickly it went together. Even at my pokey enjoy-it-all speed I think it was about 1/2 hour - most of the time spent hooking the front muffler hangers. (A bottle jack makes quick work of that-- for those of us who work on the ground.)
The price was just shy of $200.
The second didn't disappoint me either, though I was no longer amazed.
The later one went on a short-tripper, so I expect it will fail first, but so far no signs of age.
The Bosal parts I've used, in my recollection, seem to be better made than the Starla, but I somehow expected the downpipe to be made of heavier tubing.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
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The one benefit I noticed to the Volvo exhaust system was that it FITS. It ALWAYS fits. The Starla stuff is "almost exact" fit, but not perfect. I've had minor issues before.
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Chris Herbst, in Wisconsin.
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I concur with the Bosal sentiment. I recently replaced the collector pipe (pipe from manifold to converter) on my '87 wagon. I ordered a bosal, and my exhaust guy said that he had never seen one go on like that. He said he's been doing exhaust for about 30 years, and every other volvo, he's had to beat the pipe to increase the bend. It was such a pleasure that he only charged me 5 bucks instead of 10 to install it. I felt proud, its reasons like that that we keep Canada around. :)
--
1981 Volvo 244 GL w/ 225K Original B21F and 3spd. auto
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That is funny, about keeping Canada around. I've used Bosal for other pipes and mufflers and been left with a subjective opinion they were better constructed and fit better. The downpipe for the later 84 -- one with the oxygen sensor bung, and I guess, heatshield perhaps, is available in Bosal. I was tempted to order it to see if it would fit anyway.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
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The location of the failure looks like possible overstress or overheating.
Overstress would be from a mounting deficiency, but (at least on oldtimers)
overheating would likely be from insufficient ignition advance.
In fact on my first 544, a mechanic set my timing to MG specs (5° BTDC or
some such) and it actually burned the pipe in two and lit up the manifold
like a cherry.
Therefore I would suggest that you make sure your ignition timing is
correct very early in the life of this pipe. The 1/4" difference in
mounting position could be a matter of motor mounts or accumulated
tolerances, and I'd think a longer bolt would be appropriate.
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George Downs, The "original" Walrus3, Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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Hi George,
I'm not a very experienced weldor ( I recall the union magazine proclaimed "welder" to be a machine and "weldor" a professional ) so I would not be qualified to say whether starla used the right technique joining that thin pipe to that thick flange. I see the weld surviving fine, but the outline of it on the thin pipe cracked. Hmmm.
I've heard stories about lean running and timing misadjustment shortening the life of the header; setting the manifold aglow. This car is timed where it is supposed to be and had run lean, but not for long. During that time I had the ECU's mixture light to watch while driving.
Mounting stress makes more sense to me. The 240 downpipe supports the convertor and about 2 more feet of pipe before the first muffler and its rubber band supports relieve the weight. But that place where I show the 1/4" gap? That is tied to the engine-transmission brace by a springy doubled 1/4" wire bracket formed like a hairpin. So, the mounting stress seems to be not a problem cold, but possibly the thing wants to twist into a pretzel when it warms up.
The gap on the new pipe is just plain wrong. The spacers should be flush with the gussets so the bolt draw does not stress the welds. (The failed pipe was done right at that place) As it is now the spacers are useless. When I don't have to crawl in the snow to work on it, I'll stuff something in there to take up the slack and relieve the stress on the welds.
What about that flange weld? Is it possible the pipe was burned almost through by the weld that penetrated the flange an eighth inch distant? I saved the pipe, it certainly looks repairable to me.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
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I'd guess if it were burned it would be about where it broke. It would
probably have been a little cooler nearer the flange. So if it looks
full thickness at the crack, it probably is not too badly burned.
BTW a useful fact I learned in aircraft accident investigation school:
Carbon will not stick to a surface at over 700° F. So if it is carboned
up it was not that hot. And if it had been extremely thin, it would have
either broken or deformed where it was very thin.
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George Downs, The "original" Walrus3, Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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I meant "burned" by using too much heat in the weld. The crack's cross section was thick, but perhaps thinner than the rest of the pipe right at the edge of the weld. But on the other hand, I don't have any experience with an exhaust part (other than a gasket) burned by, ah, internal combustion. The inside was pretty evenly coated with carbon, I recall, as it was very difficult to light for the picture.
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Art Benstein near Baltimore
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