Hello all, my father cannot decide which of his to beasts to get rid of, (approaching retirement) he is a salesman...93 850glt with 285,000 km or 94 960 with 302,000km
on it. yup both getting up there I know. I told him dump the 960 but his mechanic (who is the best in southern ontario) told him overall the construction of the 960 is higher quality...I dunno...what do y'all think?
thanks

The 960 is RWD.
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1996 964 134,500 Miles

If that 850 is an automatic, SELL IT NOW. If it's a 5-spd, its the one to keep. The 93-only (Mark I?) version of the automatic is JUNK. Unless it's had the trans replaced for a later model (94-98), then he's driving a very expensive time bomb. Trans replacement is 10 hrs labor, MINIMUM.
The 960 is a very high quality car- I think the 850 is too. Overall both have turned out to be excellent, and I'll bet they both drive nicely still at the 200000 mile + mark. The 960 is a bit more unusual, so when you go to ask for parts for it, most places will say "you've got a WHAT?" but still, neither one of them should need more service or give less life than the other. The only exception, is if that 850 is an automatic. That trans is horrible, horrible, horrible and has cost a lot of people a LOT more than they bargained for.
On the negative side, they're both very well-equipped complex cars with expensive potential repairs to stuff like A/C and accessories. They have a lot of moving parts! Keeping everything working in their old age will cost some money, no doubt, for either one. I'd expect projected repair costs for either car to be the same.
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Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: 86 244DL, 87 244DL, 88 744GLE, 91 244: 808K total

We have a 1995 960 and have had it since new. As for repairs, the cost for
repairs has been over $6500.00 Canadian. This includes the amount spent
for the Extended Warranty covering it for 160,000 Km. Presently, the car
has around 217,000 Km. The car also had free oil & filter changes for the
life of the car or until I got pissed with the dealer. Now, they no longer
handle Volvos.
As for repairs, I've had the rear engine seal replaced twice, the A\C also
had problems. Both were covered under the Extended Warranty.
I've even had the battery explode. A real loud bang one warm afternoon when
I tried to start it. The cars been towed twice, once for the battery and
another time it wouldn't start.
I've also replaced the fluid in the transmission. I've also had problems
with front power seat. The drivers side sun visor broke. I've been driving
over 50 years and never had a visor go.
Volvo replaced the front brake pads and rotors at least three times. They
also did the rear as well to try and stop the brake pedal pulsing.
I've also had numerous power antennas installed.
I was very put out with this Volvo as I've had three other that gave me
minimal problems, a 1960/544 and 1973/145 & 142.
Well that's it for me. I wouldn't class the car as a lemon, just very
expensive to repair.

I would class some of those things as common and some as car-specific. Power antenna masts, judging by how many I replaced, are just plain prone to failure. Common to all kinds of cars, though Volvo sedans and 740 wagons do seem to break a lot. Fortunately the later cars have the left-rear window antenna, eliminating one failure point.
Trans fluid should be considered preventive maintenance for all 850/70/960/90 cars. 30K miles, very important.
Driver's power seat, I agree is very expensive to fix. Especially if it's done by the dealer. We had more than one person run theirs over some immovable object under the seat, and wreck the controller or gearbox. It's inordinately expensive and complex.
As you know if you've read this board a lot, 900 brake problems are endemic. Not that they don't work well, but just a lot of troubles with warping rotors. Usually new Volvo rotors fix it. Not always.
The A/C system is going to be expensive to fix on any car; it seems that the 960 shows it's 760 roots in this regard. Auto-climate control problems were common to all of them. At least they don't lose evaporators like 850's and V70's. THAT'S a big ugly job.
Hope yours treats you well!
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Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: 86 244DL, 87 244DL, 88 744GLE, 91 244: 808K total

My ex '94 960 had its evaporator spring a leak. Thank god it was an easy job to replace unlike some of the 700 and 940's. It took around an hour or so to pop into place. Based on my experience with the 960 it would be a cold day in he** before I own another one. My 940 turbo wagon runs and drives so well, it makes me wonder why my 960 was so poorly put together. The 940 has 1/1000 of the rattles and squeeks of the 960 too!

John

John, I agree with you, "it would be a cold day in he** before I own another
one." I even went as far as to pass my comments on to Volvo Canada who, by
the way, completely ignored me. I then sent a letter to the Volvo President
in Sweden. The reply back said he was dissappointed with opinion of Volvos
and instructed Volvo Canada to look into it. Once again, I was ignored by
Volvo Canada. Another letter back to the president was answered by the VP
of Customer Service who said I should contact Volvo Canada by phone. Great
customer service, pass the problem back to the customer.
My final letter said I would not by another Volvo. By the way, this all
started due to the second rear engine seal going. When the dealer replaced
the first seal at 59,875Km they charged 3.6 hours under warranty. When I
was paying they charged 4.8 hours. Mileage was 170,816Km. The dealer never
explained why it was 1.2 hours more. This prompted the letter campiagn.

Dealers are only allowed to charge a certain amount of hours against a specific warranty repair even thought it takes longer. When you were charged more hours out of warranty for the same repair, you were probably charged the amnount of time it actually takes to do the work. That's why some dealers don't like doing repair work. They get screwed on the hours. If you look on ALLDATA, a specific repair with have 2 sets of hours associated with it, Warranty and non-warranty hour estimates. I'm not saying it's right, just what I've been able to find out thus far.
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1998 S90 062,700 1995 964 142,100

Sorry to say im not supprised at this tale!

seems to me there are 3 issues here:-

1. Volvo canada being a complete bunch of s&*ts...so that doesnt apply to the orriginal post at all, souldnt matter if you owneda 144 or a xc...

2. engine related problems...as the 960 was basically the same engine family as the 850 (i.e. sompletely different to the b230) im not suprised at the engien problems, i always say buy at the end of the engines production run i.e. when it has been peaked and tweaked, not at the start (hell who buys v1.0 of anything!)

3. issues with seats, arials etc, all very well covered in this board..if you want a caar that will last a long time and be cheap buy BASIC...power seats - do you need them? air con do you need it (if the answers yes put up with the cost!)

My mother has a saying (which as i get older im comming to like more and more) - take what you want said God, take it and pay for it.

personnaly i run a 940t, just spent $750 on the turbo and im smileing! I paid bog all for the car, have spent a bit on it and know I will continue spending a bit (but less each year than the depreciation on a new car) I know its safe and my loved ones are well cared for...

Well i think pops is gonna try and dump the 960, he just informed me its burning a qt of oil every 2000k, definitley way higher than the 850
thanks for allo f the opinions...