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I am installing a cartridge in the Garrett T3 turbocharger on my 1988 760T project. One of the bolts which holds the trubo to the exhaust manifold was broken. The used bolt I purchased from my favorite independant Volvo shop is shown in the picture. The used bolt was $5 US and I was glad to pay that. The list price of ONE new bolt from Volvo is below the picture.
$28.53 US
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Did the dealer even have it in stock, or was he going to make you wait a week for it too?
--
Paul '89 740 Turbo 102,000
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They had one in stock, and I would have bought it if I hadn't found the used one. I am not about to scrimp on necessary quality hardware, but the $28 was a little steep.
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This thread (!) reminds me of Dan Ackroyd and Steve Martin playing the Czechoslovakian brothers on SNL ... "What is that dang thing?" That is, some rubes from the country impressed by the city.
Get used to it, parts associated with high tech, high stress items like turbos are expensive because they're expensive to manufacture and must meet high standards. You'll note the shoulder on the screw shaft as well as the 12-pt head--all items not usually found on bolts you can buy at Sears.
I expect those persons regularly maintaining Volvos and other turboed cars could readily guess the cost of the screw.
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I expected $10 to a max of $15 at Volvo. Yes, I regularly maintain turbo Volvos. Most Volvo parts prices I find to be reasonable but I try to avoid list prices at the dealer. I also maintain our 1984 Toyota LandCruiser. It hasn't needed much for parts over the years, but I can tell you that some Toyota parts are priced higher than Volvo.
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Hey John, I hear ya. I went to V to replace the bolt used to adjust the alternator, they wanted $30. I went to a boneyard and got one for $1.50. Good old Volvo.
R Mac
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It's a bolt if you put a nut on it. Otherwise, it's a screw.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Jeff W.
on
Mon Feb 24 18:16 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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John,
I used ARP studs for my turbo. However, I used the mitsubishi manifold, not the normal garret manifold. ARP sent me 4 metric studs that worked great with the manifold, washers and castle nuts for $22.50 shipped. I'll have to dig up the part numbers, as it is at home somewhere.
What happened to make you take the head off?
Regards,
Jeff
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John:
What type of wrench do you use to remove these bolts? I plan to get one and drive the 350 miles (one way) to the UpickEM junkyard in San Antonio and get all of these
plus the shock mounting bolts I can find...watch for my eBay ad.
Thanks for the tip.
(hope no other brickboarder steals my idea.....)
Gracias,
el Raidman
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Hey John!
I agree that $28 is way too much but I suspect that if this is a high-temp
application (over about 400° F) that all bets will be off if you use normal
high strength bolts because they temper at temperatures not too much higher,
and special high-temp alloys are required to get the high strength at
elevated temps. Therefore you really need to know what bolt is specified
before you can safely replace them with a store-bought bolt.
And sorry, but most Home Depot bolts are not only NOT high strength,
but they are also certainly not high temperature unless specifically
identified as such with the applicable spec. Generally, even for
high temp bolts, high strength is not as high as for normal temps.
There was a comment made about "sheer" of high strength bolts.
Normally, shear strength is roughly proportional to tensile strength,
and the elastic modulus of a soft (weak) bolt is the same as a hard (strong)
one. The difference is that the elastic limit of the strong bolt is
higher, and it comes back to its original length, straightness, etc
at levels which would leave the weaker bolt permanently stretched, bent,
etc. A stronger bolt is stronger, period. A weak bolt shears more easily
than a strong bolt. A bolt which is permanently deformed (stretched, bent
or partially sheared) is failed just as surely as if it were pulled in two.
--
George Downs, The "original" Walrus3, Bartlesville, Oklahoma
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Can you get it through Fastenal or one of the specialty metric suppliers?
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I don't know if this bolt can be sourced outside of Volvo, but I doubt it. It has the 12 point head and the shoulder under the head. I'm glad I didn't need four from the dealer.
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posted by
someone claiming to be ibs740
on
Tue Feb 25 01:56 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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John: That bolt sounds like something aircraft quality. Usually they use 12 point heads. But their prices are much worse. I was testing one that cost $60.00 for a 1/4-28 X 35mm. Canadian $ but still nuts.
Other than configuration if you can get a hardness/identifier on it you can usually match it from a specialty supplier at a better price.
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I don't know the alloy of the bolt, but I would think it is superior to aircraft. It has to withstand lots ligher temperatures than most aircraft bolts are subjected to.
Fotunately I was able to buy the used bolt. Good hardware is expensive, but not that expensive. The wing bolts on a Beechcraft probably cost more because of the liability insurance policy the hardware manufacturer buys for protection from lawsuits.
As Jeff W. and Steve suggested, there are no dooubt other sources for a bolt to substitute for this Volvo bolt, but when you are only buying one it doesn't pay to spend a week looking for the substitute.
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Yup. Those are the infamous $25 turbo bolts. Unless I could spec an identical one elsewhere, I wouldn't be in much of a hurry to cheap out. Yes you need too many of them.. but they get exposed to such extreme heat, I fear that a cheaper one would fail.
This is why when I pulled the head on the sedan, I left the exhaust manifold more or less in place, and wiggled the head out of the holes.
In a pinch, a good indie mechanic can be a wallet saver. On my friend's 760 we needed to get a mounting bolt for the caliper before we could drive it home. The Volvo one was some obscene amount, and it used a monsterous allen drive. Nor was it in stock. Ugh. A local Volvo/Saab shop (right down the street) provided a similar bolt apparently used elsewhere in the suspension (IIRC ball joint) free of charge. This one had a nice standard head.
Check the markings on the bolt heads. Make sure they're of the identical (or the replacement is greater) strength. Metric bolts use pretty sane markings. The higher the numerical value printed on the head, the stronger the bolt.
- alex
'85 244 Turbo
'84 245 Turbo
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kind of makes me feel like the $48 I paid for 4 girling caliper floating pins and rubber seals and grease wasn't so much after all. :-)
--
Kenric Tam
1990 Volvo 740 base sedan (B230F)
My Volvo 'Project'
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Kenric:
I got this same kit from FCPGroton for $35.
el Raidman
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when i bought it, i needed it ASAP. my car was on jackstands outdoors with the wheels off and it was nearly 5PM and about to rain. :) otherwise, i would've ordered from fcp.
--
Kenric Tam
1990 Volvo 740 base sedan (B230F)
My Volvo 'Project'
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Ouch. It better come all wrapped up in a nice blue box and not plastic.
I ran into some trouble with the rear lower shock bolts on a 740. Total for both bolts was about 32 bucks (2 bolts and 2 nuts). I ran to home depot.
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posted by
someone claiming to be Iris
on
Mon Feb 24 14:54 CST 2003 [ RELATED]
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As I recall, there are 3 basic grades of bolts: grade 2, grade 5, and grade 8, 8 being the hardest. Grade 8 bolts are sometimes considered "aircraft quality". These can be usually distinguished by the markings (or lack of) on the bolt head, if it has a "hex head". There is probably other markings on bolts with different types of heads. Typically, I believe the grade 2 has no markings, the grade 5 will have 3 markings, (3 small "lines" on top) and I believe the grade 8 has 5 marks on top. (Somone can correct me if I am wrong.) This is going by memory. Haven't checked in a bit. The grade 8 bolts, although extremely "hard" may be more subject to sheer because of the lack of "flex", while the grade 5 are not as hard and have more "flex" to them. By comparison the grade 2's are very "soft". I am sure by now there are more 'grades' of bolts depending on the need. You certainly would not want to use grade 2 bolts in say a clutch pressure plate. Grade 8 bolts being so hard, are difficult to "stretch" with tightening, and can tear up the female threads that may be designed for grade 5 bolts. In other words, you need to determine which grade is actually best for any particular application. The "$25 bolt" that you mention may be a bit "overpriced", but it was designed for that particular application, I would surmise.
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Don't confuse the SAE bolt grades with ISO metric strength classes that you'll find on your Volvo. SAE bolts strengths are normally indicated by graphic markings on the head. ISO strength classes are normally indicated by the class number on the head. Commonly available grades are class 5.8 (garden variety), class 8.8 (high strength) and class 10.9 (extra high strength). There are a great many other classes for specialty applications such as areospace. Here's an interesting link (note the table at the bottom).
--
-Dave (not to be confused with a real expert, just goofing around at this)
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you forgot grade 10...for the toughest applications.
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