I'm hoping that "Detailer" or some of the paint/body pros on the board can help me with this situation. Advise is welcome from all, so if you've been in my shoes or know someone who has, please post.

For starters, my North American market Deep Blue '87 240 Wagon (no clear coat, original factory paint, and I'm guessing a medium/light buildup of oxidation) was parked at home while I was gone for awhile (a month ago). A person who also resides at my residence was painting with some silver spray paint in the driveway (just after a hard rain) and a lot of silver mist found its way to the upward facing surfaces of my car (mostly hood, roof, and windshield). Due to the beaded up water puddles on the car, the paint formed some very weird circular patters that are quite visible when standing next to the car.

As of a couple days ago, the same person started to remove the silver paint (and also some paint oxidation) using the 3 steps listed below, but operations have ceased and I need to finish the job of buffing and polishing so it looks uniform again. Here's what's been done so far:

Step 1: "Turtle Wax Rubbing Compound (Heavy Duty Cleaner), stock # T-230" (red paste in a white&red container) was applied by hand and used to remove about 85% of the silver paint. This also removed most of the oxidation on the hood, and about half of the oxidation on the roof. All the silver paint was removed from the hood, and about 70% was removed from the roof. (I'd like to get out a bit more of the silver paint, but can live with the current results if I must.)

Step 2: "Turtle Wax Polishing Compound (and Scratch Remover), stock # T-241" (white paste in a white&green container) was applied to the roof and hood of the car. This was done using a 1,500 RPM electric circular polisher with a 7" Wool Pad. However, the person who did this was only 'pulsing' the polisher and not running it at the full 1,500 RPMs. I would guess that they were maintaining a speed of about 250 to 400 RPMs on the motor. This was done in the shade with about 75 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit ambient temperature.

Step 3: !!!Stop!!! and evaluate... There are swirl marks in the hood. -lots of them. When I walk around the car in the sunlight, it looks like a multi-layered 3-D image due to all the moving swirl lines that are on the hood. It is bad enough that it looks almost like futuristic art is hovering over the hood of my car. The roof however is only half done, but there are no visible swirl marks in the areas that were done. Some paint still remains and varying shades of oxidation cover about half of the roof.

At this point, I've stopped further progress until I get some advice. I'm hoping that the insight of the Brickboard contributors can help and prevent me from making a mistake (if one hasn't been made already). I'd like to get the car to an even/uniform color and I want to do it the right way, rather than a cheap fix. What should I do from this point??? -a few options I have considered and some questions are listed below:

Course of Action (A): Purchase the Automagic BCI and BCII that they sell in IPD and use them to hopefully remove the remaining oxidation from the roof (BCI), and then buff out the car (BCII). -then followed by a separate wax...??? I'm new to this, please correct me if I'm assuming wrong. I'm also assuming that I can safely run these products at 1500 RPM.

Course of Action (B): (in alternative to action A mentioned above) Purchase some 3M products from my local Napa or 3M-Online while they have free shipping, and use them as per the directions. However, there are lots of choices and I'm not sure what one(s) to buy. Here's what's available that seems most relevant to the situation at hand:

#39001 "Imperial Microfinishing Rubbing Compound (Medium Cut)" Requires electric buffer and 3M Compounding Pad, not for hand use. Removes medium scratches and medium oxidation.
#39002 "Perfect-it II Rubbing Compound (Fine Cut)" Hand or Machine use, removes fine scratches, and medium oxidation. Leaves a fine finish.
#39003 "Finesse-it II Finishing Material Machine Polish" Removes minor scratches and leaves a deep wet-looking shine.
#39004 "Superduty Rubbing Compound (Heavy Cut)" -yeah, I'd rather not touch this unless advised to by a professional.
#39009 "Perfect-it Foam Polishing Pad Swirl Mark Remover" For dark colored vehicles, removes light surface imperfections, swirl marks, light oxidation and produces a deep rich, swirl-free finish. For hand or machine use, requires Foam Polishing Pad 05725.
#39006 "One-Step Cleaner Wax Light Oxidation Remover" Removes fine scratches, light oxidation, swirl marks, and stains. Leaves deep, rich luster and durable waxed finish.
#39066 "One-Step Cleaner Wax Medium Oxidation Remover" Rapidly cleans and removes most fine and medium scratches, medium oxidation. Leaves deep, rich luster and durable waxed finish.
#39026 "Perfect-It Show Car Liquid Wax" Shines/Protects new and like-new finishes. Deep, high gloss, durable wet look.
#06005 "Premium Liquid Wax" Use on all cured paint finishes. For use by hand or orbital polisher. High gloss, deep luster, durable finish on both new and used car paints.

On my way home today, I stopped by my local GM dealership that has an attached body shop. I asked one of the paint/polish techs to give me his opinion of the hood of my car (and I apologized to him that it wasn't my Pontiac that I had with me, -he didn't care). He only had a moment to talk since he was in the middle of a job, but after one look at the hood of my car, he advised me to buy the 3M #39009 "Foam Polishing Pad Swirl Mark Remover" (as mentioned above) and also the associated Foam Pad required for it (# 05725).

Now, with that info in mind, I'm wondering if I should perform the following steps using the 3M system (please voice your opinions and suggestions):
Step 1. #39002 or #39001 Rubbing Compound on the roof of the car. (I don't know which one to use. My oxidation isn't terrible/bad but there's a decent amount of it. I'm leaning towards the 39002 Fine Cut rubbing compound, but I've got no experience and it's only a hunch.) -or maybe #39066 One-Step Cleaner Wax Medium Oxidation Remover?
Step 2. #39009 Foam Polishing Pad Swirl Mark Remover, on both the hood and the roof.
Step 3. Wax of some sort... What should I use? At this point I'll have put a lot of work into the finish and would like to use a product that will protect my invested time. Turtle Wax Hard Shell? The 3M Premium Liquid Wax 06005? The 3M One-Step Cleaner/Wax 39006? Finishing Material Polish 39003? Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the long narrative and list of available products, but I wanted to cover all the bases and hopefully some of you on the board will have experience with these products and can advise me of the best course of action. I haven't ruled out the AutoMagic BC I and II, but the advise from the body shop tech has me leaning towards the 3M system. Maybe the swirl marks are supposed to appear and then disappear with regular buffing/polishing? I've got no clue...

Lastly, I saw in a post by "Detailer" some time ago that he recommended Mothers & Meguiars. I'll mention these two products that I have access to:
*** "Mothers Pre-Wax Cleaner" removes oxidation and wax, and can be used by hand or high-speed.
*** "Meguiars Mirror Glaze / Professional Show Car Glaze 7" Polish for a deep gloss shine, apply by hand, orbital buffer, or DA polisher.
(I'm interested if these products will work with the wool pad I have, or do I need to buy a different one? The Mothers/Meguiars products would cost me about 1/4 of the cost of the 3M products if they will work at my current state.)

For those of you who are interested in more info/prices on the 3M system, you can check out their website at:
http://www21.3m.com/dr/v2/ec_Main.Entry?SP=10007&SID=28181&CID=0&CUR=840

God bless, and again I apologize for the long narrative.
Fitz Fitzgerald.

P.S. I have been advised that "California Quick Shine" can be used to hide the swirls, but this would only be putting a Band-Aid on the problem. I'd like to do the job right and elimiate the swirls rather than hide them temporarily.
--
'87 Blue 245, NA 223K

Thank you all for the information so far. This is obviously a new learning experience for me and you've greatly helped me in my search for information/technique. I've just printed off a copy of all that's been posted here and I'm going to digest it tonight. I hope to have this project completed in the next week or so, and appreciate all the quick and knowledgeable responses.

Thanks again to you all, Detailer, Bishop, Corky, Houride, Ron, Art, Jbowser, and Doug. I'll keep you posted with my progress and questions.

God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
--
'87 Blue 245, NA 223K

Check www.goodspeedmotoring.com

He offers lots of good advice and products.
--
Thanks to everyone for the help, Doug C. 81 242 Brick Off Blocks, stock, M46; 86 240, 133k

I would use the BCII as it is a finisher. BCI is very agresseve and is for cut. There are a few ways to remove swirls.

1, rub in a front to rear motion by hand, using PLUM CRAZY. It is avalible at most auto paint dis.stores. It is desinged for the darker colers like blue and black. IT IS A PURPLE COLOR AND IS IN A SQUEEZ BOTTEL, COST AROUND 15-20 BUCKS IN USA. Simply rub in a fore and back motion at least 5 hevy passes,Make many passes.

2, buff with BCII and a buffer. Lay the buffers pad so it is flat against the paint and buff many passes, than move to another spot and repeat with many passes.
Dont push down on buffer when buffing, but kinda lift upwards so the center of the pad is barly in contact with the paint.
Keep the pad level with the surface as your working. Swirls are from when a person angels the buffer and uses the outer edge of pad. I buff in the sun light so I can see the swirls as I cutting and can see them dissapier as im maken many light passes.
--
Kevin * HONDA spanking,1985 240DL * VOLVO ON!!!!

It's probally way to late to say this, but you went about removing the overspray the wrong way to begin with.
Heavy cutting is a last resort, you should have clay blocked it, using a special clay that is designed for that sort of thing.

But if the over spray is all off now, just switch to a good product like Meguiars, Mothers, etc, and just read and follow the instructions on the packs, they should remove the swirls and bring back the shine if used properly.

Stay away from gimic products that make all sorts of all in one type of claims, there are no short cuts, often you need like 5 steps to really clean it all up back to normal.
--
My 85 760Ti, and her name is Veronica...

Ok, the one thing that I'm good at-
I have been detailing cars for the last 20+ years and have always found the Meguiars products superior to the 3M. Since it sounds as though you have all of the silver paint off and are left with swirl marks, I would go to a #3 Meguiars glaze. Apply with an ORBITAL buffer and NOT a power buffer. Go over it several times if you have to, going in different directions each time. Run the buffer over the surface at about an inch every 2 seconds or so and make sure that you wipe off the dried glaze after each application. Finish with an application of your favorite wax. Use a carnuba wax without a cleaner, swirl mark, or oxidation remover. Just straight wax. If you have any further questions, just email me.

c.martin50@gte.net

"Apply with an ORBITAL buffer and NOT a power buffer. "

'splain, please.

An orbital buffer is similar to an orbital sander. It moves a pad in a circular orbit around the center axis of the device. -however, the pad does not rotate. If you turn it on and don't hold it, it will stay in the same position and vibrate.

A Power-Buffer/DA/1500-RPM device is a rotary type polisher where the pad spins in a circle. If you turn it on and don't hold it, it will spin around, and around until it wraps up the power cord and unplugs itself. A similar concept to a circular saw that's lying on its side.

God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
--
'87 Blue 245, NA 223K

I have always had good luck with the 3M Imperial Microfinishing compound. Hopefully your "helper" didn't remove too much of the paint with the aggresive red compound, a 16 year old car's paint is most likely starting to get a bit thin unless garaged most of the time.

I would just try the 3M Imperial stuff by hand, unless you are an accomplished buffer operator. It is real easy to burn the paint and get down to the primer on sharp edges, and our Bricks are full of them! A point to remamber, on ANY paint job/vehicle, the paint on any sharp body line, edge, or ridge is much thinner than on a flat surface to buff accordingly.

I would suspect that after a rubbing with the Imperial, and a good wax, it will look quite respectable. I also use the same compound on tail lights, turn signal lenses, and other like plastic parts and it will make them look almost new.

Good luck,

Justin B.

Fitz,

I completely agree with Ron. Use lighter cut abrasives first, see if it cures the issue. Swirl marks generally result from scratches and/or moving oxidized paint around on the surface. To remove oxidation, a lot of pads will be required. Do small areas at a time (no more than 2 sq. ft.). After all oxidation is removed, then put on a glaze and remove. After a glaze, then wax. Any wax that is listed as a cleaner/wax has some level of abrasives in it. After all your work, definitely use a wax without abrasives. The best wax will really only last perhaps a month or so, depending on how much time the car spends outdoors in the sun. Dark colors are worse, since they soak up the heat. I would recommend a random orbital unit instead of DA, it can be really easy to burn through the paint, especially around bodywork edges. One other source you may want to consult is griotsgarage . They have a lot of good products, Meguiar's professional products are good as well (consult your local auto body supply store).

If the time to be invested is too great, you may want to consider taking the car to a body shop. I checked here in Des Moines, I got a quote of about $200 for a full oxidation removal and wax.

Jeff

Don't take this the wrong way please.
swirls are when people use the edge of a whool pad.
wax has three ingredients 1,a wax 2,a lubrecant 3,a grit. when the pad spins the heavy grit is forced outward. The lubricant is the lightest so it stays in the center of the spinning pad and the inbetween heavy and light is the wax witch flings to the middel part of pad.

So when people angle the buffer, the grit being at the outer part of pad heats up the paint and the paint gets soft and the wool fibers leave little scratches since the lub and wax is not there to protect against the heat.

Kinda hard to explain.
--
Kevin * HONDA spanking,1985 240DL * VOLVO ON!!!!

You could try going over the hood with the turtle wax polishing by hand. I just got done using it and am very pleased with the results- it also works well as a first treatment on bumpers.

The general rule I always follow when polishing out paint problems is start with a lighter rubbing/polishing compound and go heavier if needed rather than start with a heavy compound and go lighter. The point of this philosophy is to take as little paint off as possible to get the results you want. So in your case I would forget about the heavy rubbing compounds. I would start with one of the swirl removers with the proper pad on your 1500rpm polisher and see how that does. If you go to the Meguiars website they have videos on polishing out blemishes that shows proper polisher technique, etc. I've used Meguiars products for years without problems.

Good luck!

Ron Tewksbury
1968 122s ?99K miles
1987 245dl 145K miles
1989 745gl 182K miles

Hoooboy. Sounds as if you have a really nice looking car for an 87 in MI. As you probably heard, I'm paint-shine challenged. I do have some experience using the 3M Heavy Cut polish on a badly sunburned ruby red. Several portions are highlighted with gray primer now...

Best wishes, Fitz.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore