Hi guys - there's no one I respect more than you boys when it comes to brickdom knowledge about the redblocked machines. With that said, I'd love some opinions on a move I'm thinking of making.

We have two 940s - my wife's '92 GL sedan (170k) and my 94 T-wagon (112k). I do all my own work on the cars, and have really grown to love them for their reliability and solid qualities. My wife has been great about her car - loves it (has been driving it since '96) - has no desire for something else. But I'd like to surprise her for Christmas with something newer, nicer, QUICKER and that gets a bit better mileage.

So, I'm thinking an 850 sedan. I know NOTHING about the 850 series, except they have a sideways motor (yech) - but like the fact that the '97 850s, should have been pre-FoMoCo.

What do you guys think of the 850s? There are quite a few models of 850s - T-5 being one of them. I would love to hear pros/cons of these cars... primarily about engine reliability, routine maintence, timing belt/water pump replacement. I would think the body/electrical/interior would be as strong and the mid 90's 940 series or better. I just know nothing about that engine/tranny.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it :)

if shes looking for faster

why not consider a 94-95 940Se
and add a g-valve to it

newer, faster.

Chris, since you drive both the 940 sedan and 940 wagon, would you comment on the differences? I am about to pass on my beloved 1989 240 sedan to my soon to be driving son and want a 940 in the worst way. I just can't decide between the sedan vs the wagon or the SE vs the Turbo. Would love to hear you or anyone else's opinion about your likes/dislikes, etc.

Just a suggestion, but if she really likes the 940 but wants something faster and more comfortable, why not an early 960? The body, front suspension, brakes, and interior are either identical or at least very similar to the 940s so it will be familiar to you in terms of repair/maintenance. Plus, you get the B6304 good for 200hp and 200 lbft of torque and it's turned the right way. I would argue that this is the best Volvo engine ever made, perhaps with the exception of the T6.

Another option would be a later 960, which surpasses even the early 960s in terms of luxuriousness. Models after '95 are a totally different beast from the earlier 940/960s and actually borrow somewhat from the 800 series.
--
Lance '92 965 w/ 180K miles

I’ll preface this by saying that I have never owned an 850 – just two 945 Turbos.
That having been said…
To answer your question about the differences between these two cars: it would be easier to list what they have in common – which is nothing! The body/chassis is completely different. The engine has no relationship to its predecessor – the legendary red block. (In fact, I think the in-line 5 is an interference engine.) The transmission is completely different. And of course the remainder of the drivetrain has no similarities to a 940 (FWD vs RWD).

I love my 945 Turbo, but realistically, at some point I will have to replace it. If at that time a suitable RWD Volvo is not available, I will be looking at other brands of cars. I’m just not at all impressed with what I see/hear/read about the FWD line of Volvo cars.

Just my 2 cents. (Arguably worth that!)

Jeff Pierce
--
'93 945 Turbo ( one kickass family car ! ), '92 Mercedes 190E (my daily driver), '53 Willys-Overland Pickup (my snow-plow truck/conversation piece)

just a small point (from someone who owns a 940t and a 850 na)...

although it certainly is true there isnt much in the way of common parts (...actually i dont think i have found one yet....apart from the cd changer..) and the wheels on later 9xx series....and the engine in the 960.....

but the build quality and design philosphy is much the same...athough it is a revolution the layout is virtually identical on the engine (apart from its turned 90 degrees...and i opened the bonnet and within 10 mins was sort of seeing a red block turned by 90 degrees with an extra pot and some more volves...and a transverse box...

in all seriousness for avergae day to day stuff i feel right at home...

now if your the sort of guy who wants to tear into a full engine rebuild it is very different, but for your average spark, oil, filter type work if anything its easier

having just disassembled the side of mine to fit a cd changer in the boot (trunk) i can also say i actually think (herasy!) that the interior trim is stronger and better put together /designed than my 940....

ok i agree its not red-block and you cant do a full rebuild with two bent nails and a condom...but it is easy to get at stuff for the average guy...

as to reliability i will let you know how it compares to my 940 & my brothers 740 when it has 150 k on it....but right now it would have to be trying to be worse...and lets face it ANY modern car should do 200k if its maintained andhas cam belts etc changed on time....i certainly have run a variety of cars to that milage (and considerably beyond) with little or no work...including peugeots, vw's and vauxhauls (GM)....

Ok i can chip in here as i have a 940turbo and an 850...i just bought the 850...

for the record

91 940turbo (170bhp, 4+od stick shift, 1/2 lether interior, wagon, 140 some k)
95 850Gle (170 bhp, 20valve 5 cylinder, 4spd auto, full leather, sedan 60k)

the 940 is easy to work on...but the 850 doesnt look much worse to be honest...after 96 they got the fault code reader socket that means u NEED a reader rather than just pulling the codes off the led....

my 850 is certainly much more refined than the 940turbo, it handles better, is far more comftable nad quieter and does 30 ish to the gallon (the 940 turbo does 24 ish, but a non turbo should do better....)but...i just had it serviced (80k service inc disks & cam belt) and your talking £540 ($750) at a independant using genuine volvo parts...

the 850 should on paper be as fast as the 940...but you would have to drive it harder to make it happen in reality...in fact it feels slow by comparison (even if you are going as fast!)

now the t5 IS faster usably...but the penalty is fuel consumption thats about the same as a 940turbo AND tyres that last 8-14k miles! (so im reliably told) - in fact i talked to one guy who smoked a set of fronts in a day because he was 'having fun'...

also t5's tend to get driven VERY hard...certainly given the reputation of the auto box on the early 850's i wouldnt touch an auto t5 myself...or one with a less than PERFECT service record....but then again I wouldnt buy a 940turbo with with an auto box or a less than perfect service record either (bitter experience talking)...

to sum up the 850 is a good car, the engine is really just like a b230 only laid sideways and with an extra pot and a few more valves...if your gona rebuild it it would be trickier but for everyday oil changes etc if anything its easier (filter on bottom at front, no horrible 4th plug....)

the volvo design life for the 850 engine is 200k....

be warned the 859 drives VERY differently to the 940...try before you buy!

thanks kick - I've always read your 940T posts with interest. I hate that you've had so much trouble, really do. You make nice points about the 850. But I've been reading 'reviews' on the 850 / S70 series - and a large minority of the reviews have been less than optimistic. Quite the contrary to the 940 reviews I've read. I may be leaving well enough alone for now, regarding the purchase :) - thanks for taking the time to post. And congrats on the car. Gotta love that EPA increase.

Chris, My next upgrade will be a '93 240 wagon or a '94 940 turbo wagon.How has the wagon been? Any problems I should be aware of before buying one?
I've had everything from 122s.144s,164,245,265,240.I currently have a '90 240 sedan and a '86 240DL wagon,I want to sell both and get a newer wagon.
I haven't heard good things about the 5 cylinder aluminum block,therefore I'll keep the rear wheel Volvos going as long as I can,I too do all my own work on my cars.
I do like the newer Volvos,I'd love a V70xc or a turbo 850 wagon even but I don't think I could do a rear main seal or fix the A.C. if they were to quit.Not to mention ABS,SRS and other "new' technology.
--
philvo

philvo

Philvo - I never owned a 240 or earlier series volvo - just the 940s. But as a converted ford guy (when I met my wife she owed to much on her 'swedish mule' for me to get rid of, so I jumped in with both feet and began to work on it - and fell in love with them - never seen a better assembled car - every fastener...just perfect), I must say these things are rock solid. From what I understand, 30+ years of red-block technology and all the latest creature conforts (circa '95 :). Yes, if I may suggest to you, consider the turbo. It's much funner to drive than the nonT. I did a headgasket replacement a few months ago, and it was doable. Even with the turbo. Even though they have the modern abs / a/c systems, they are absolutely rock solid. Problems...no, nothing you should really look for. Except you'll probably want to go ahead and update the cooling system (rad/hoses/water pump/heater control valve) as a preventative measure - in case it hasn't been done. And timing belt. Other than that...zoom zoom. Thanks for your vote too.

I bought a '96 850 GLT last year as an upgrade from my '87 240 dl wagon. I've loved it so far. Obviously quicker than a wagon, more bells and whistles and looks cooler. (Wagon kept reminding me of my 43 years of age.)

Problems...My old Volvo mechanics don't like and won't work on them so I will have to find another non dealer mechanic. Light bulbs in dash and controls burn out too fast. Only a nuisance. A/C's are notoriously bad in that there have been evaporator problems. Mines not working and fear that's the problem. ($1000 to fix). My seat heater didn't work but there was a recall and was fixed free of charge. My suspension has become a little creaky and yet to determine what that problem is.

Engine has run smoothly. I change the oil with Mobil 1 Syn every 3000. I've never owned a 940 but it was obviously a big upgrade from the 240.

If I did it over again I would probably go for the turbo model. I'm not a hotrodder and mine is OK but the turbo would make it that much qucker when you need it.

John

philvo - forgot to say - you can fit a TON of stuff in the back of a 945. Bought my son a twin bed - matress fit in the back, and I was able to close the hatch (folded backseat down though). And I put lumber in the back when working on house projects. LOVE the wagon.

Great cars and fast. Make sure you are aware of the AC evaporator problem (evidence of a replaced new type would be worth $1000 to you) a leaking rear main seal (another big deal repair) and make sure the ABS light is not on. Here again, evidence for a repaired ABS control unit is worth something. Then get reardy to do the PNP switch ($100 or $300 at the dealer) and a couple of other regular glitches. A car that has been properly serviced should be nice. As the last of the square Volvos, they are really attractive cars, I think.

bought a '96 850 GLT last year as an upgrade from my '87 240 dl wagon. I've loved it so far. Obviously quicker than a wagon, more bells and whistles and

John and rhaire - thanks guys for the insight. Sounds like the 850s, even the later ones, had issues the 940s didn't. Evaporator, dash bulbs, ABS...strange. John- yes, turbo for sure. Very happy with my 945T. Rhaire - yeah, they do look kinda cool :)

Can anyone elaborate on the differences between the 850 models?

I bought a '96 855T in July, giving up my '84 245T before moving cross-country. The car is generally a hoot to drive. But....
Spent a lot of money on what might be sort of a dud: it seems to have the typical problems for the 850 at 100k. Got the rear main seal replaced by the dealer,but at that point too, the door check strap was broken, various computer systems --like the ABS-- are not talking to each other though the systems still work, and the alloy wheels were bent and cracking. Gor the rims replaced by the dealer too. Now it seems like the turbo and the heater core are going; it's burning a lot of oil and barely passed inspection here in Pennsylvania, and smells like anti-freeze when the heater is on at all. So that's familiar stuff.
What I see mentioned in the discussion above is the longevity of the motor and I can't say anything about that. What I don't see above is a discussion of the interior longevity --seems pretty flimsy-- and the rattly /squeaky door panels etc. All the things, in other words, that you're trying to keep moving with an intact motor. All in all it seems pretty lightweight.
I'll be selling it soon, if you're still interested.
So my recommendation, if you like the solidity of the 945 would be to buy your wife some flowers, go to Victoria's for some lingerie, turn the lights down low and save several thousand dollars.
good luck and happy holidays.