Well we just got our first big snowfall here in CT, and of course the talk turns to snow tires for all us RWD owners. I'm on night shift, and got to drive to work at 6PM and home at 7AM each night of the storm.
The first night, I made it though felt quite unstable, running the same tires I have for years on my 240s- Virgo rims with Michelin 195/60-15 MXV+4's. A good all around tire and it DID NOT leave me stuck anywhere, despite being 6 years old or so, and beyond 1/2 worn out.
Traction was marginal though they did grab and go with a fair bit of wheel spin. I could break them loose any time I wanted. Decent tire still, and if it wasn't a major storm extending over 3 days, I would have probably left them.
But- it was supposed to dump another 8-14" of snow Saturday, and it did get nasty though not as bad as predicted. I replaced the rears with 2 barely-used Gislaved Nord*Frost 185/70-14s on steel rims. Holy cow! I got me a snow car!
It really felt like I could go ice racing or something. They grab and bite and DO NOT let the rear end slide unless I abuse it. On plowed roads, with a bit of dirt for bite, they're amazing. If I'd put on all 4 (it was cold, OK?) this car would virtually climb mountains. I am able to start and stop on fairly steep hills and have no issues with stability or traction once moving. High speed, on wet highways they do seem to give up something to the Michelins, but I also have fairly low pressures in them right now, so it could be that. What a GREAT snow tire. Get them, you won't be disappointed.
Now by contrast, one of my neighbors couldn't get her 88 745 out this morning, even when we cleared it a path to the plowed lane on the street. This car has a month-old set of Pirelli P4000, size 185/70-14, and they SUCK! I've never seen a worse new tire in the snow. The car simply couldn't get any bite at all. They just spun and turned the snow layer to ice underneath them. Even when we pushed the car out, and got it on level ground, that is the plowed, snow-covered street with a bit of gravel and salt - it WOULD NOT GO. They were terrible. Even with 250 lbs of sand in the back, this car couldn't hook up. I do NOT recommend these tires for winter use- and I'm usually a big fan of Pirelli's. If you've got em, stay home when it gets slippery- you're gonna get stuck.
As a side note, coming home late last night in a friend's 4wd pickup, my wife came across another of our neighbors in her 87 244 (my old car). This thing has an assortment of "free" tires on it, and they're the wrong size (195/70-14). She was stuck in her 3rd snowbank of the night... they pushed her out and got her down the street and into the driveway. THese tires are cheapies made by LeMans, and they're not so good in the snow. Probably only as good as my worn Michelins. Driver inexperience may have played a part, but the conditions were really treacherous too when she was trying to get home in the early AM.
That's enough from me... take it easy out there!
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Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: '87 244DL/M47- 225K, 88 744GLE- 209K, 91 244 183K. Also responsible for the care and feeding of: 88 745GLE, 229K, 88 244GL, 146K, 87 244DL, 235K, 88 245DL, 236K

Where do they sell these tires?

This is very much my experiences too with the brands you mention, even if mine are a few years back. The Gislaveds were good, the Pirellis were ... not. In Scandinavian tire tests, winter tires are often classified as either made for continental Europe or for Scandinavia. In the winter conditions we have up here we need tires that will perform on snow and ice, and we are generally willing to accept less emphasis on bare, wet roads capabilities. In continental Europe it is the other way around. Consequently, I have yet to try a Scandinavian tire with really poor snow/ice characteristics as they are all made to work in Nordic winters, but tires like Pirelli, Dunlop, Firestone etc. can be either quite good or quite bad depending on what markets that were the producers’ main target for that particular tire.

Tire testing is 'big business' up here; independent companies with full-time employed testers and purpose-built test tracks (typical location, northern Finland) do extensive tests prior to each season to test this year's offerings of summer/winter tires. Results are sold as reports to the large newspapers and motor magazines. The tests get a lot of attention, and these tests decide who will win and who will loose the Scandinavian customers that year.

The most extensive test for this winter had Gislaved SoftFrost and Continental ContiViking Contact3 as overall winners among the studless tires. The Gislaved tires had slightly better marks in one of the snow test categories though. Pirelli Icesport was the test's looser. The only tire performing worse was a Bridgestone tire from 1996 they threw in just to check tire technology improvements over the last few years.

Among the studded tires, no-one could beat Nokian Hakkapellitta 4 overall, even if several were better on wet asphalt. The poorest performer was Kumho, only slightly better than a 1996 Michelin. Interestingly, Pirelli Winter Carving came in on a tied second place. As it is a studded tire it is designed for the Scandinavian market however, as studs are prohibited in most of Europe.

The test can be downloaded here, Norwegian text though but the tables might be of interest:
http://www.motor.no/pdf/vinterdekktest_2003.pdf

Erling.

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My 240 Page

Sounds like my northeast twin. I have an '87 244/M47 running 185/70/14 Nordfrost II on the rear and some all season BFG's up front, which are about due for replacement after this season. Last year in the Washington DC area I NEVER got stuck during the big 2 day, ~2ft. snowfall. I've already made it through a minor storm this year that dropped about 5". You're absolutely right that they just never quit on snow. I keep pushing the limit, and I keep getting through. I may get two more for the front, although i'm considering a different tire that will have stiffer sidewalls since I'm used to driving on 205/50/15's. Possibly 195/60/14's.

Hey Michael, funny thing, I drove my girlfriend's car the other day, 93 944T with 4 gislaved Nordfrost3 tires, it is even more solid than my car! It has ABS and I think it has the locking diff, it's got some grip! And this is the 3rd season with these tires.

Greg
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http://home.earthlink.net/~greg.wong/

I bet that's an easy car to drive in the snow. ;) I'm not sure if I'll get the true trac in before winter is over, but I'm hoping to, which would greatly improve my snow traction (& snow drifting). Mike P. installed one in Dana's 242Ti and they said the tone ring from a 240 was actually a little too big, but I think Mike said it could be tack welded and would work. He's got a true trac to install in his '88 245 now, so he'll be the first test to see if the speedo works. I'll let you know.

ABS would be nice at times, but does it ever get confused on low/no grip situations? I was using the parking brake a lot last week since I only have the snow tires on the rear. Works good.

Howdy Rob, good to hear you made it through the snow! I bought a set of 4 Gislaveds on 15" steel wheels this year, brand new tires and Volvo wheels. Got em on Ebay from some tire guy in CT for less than $300 shipped. I know several other people jumped on this deal as well. These tires are awesome! I've been driving my 242 through it all, and had no problems at all. For Sunday, I got the 140 pounds of sand in the trunk, too.

The past 4 or 5 winters I used Michelin Arctic Alpins, they were ok, I never got stuck, but they didn't grip like these Gislaveds! This winter I was actually going to buy a set of the Green Diamond tires until I found this deal on Ebay.

Did you do a lot of shoveling?? We're just getting started! (With winter, that is)

Greg
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http://home.earthlink.net/~greg.wong/

Rob,

I have to admit that I also have an affinity for Pirelli tires myself, but they were a set of P700Z's that I wore down to the bead. They were fantastic right down to the end except on snow, but then they were definetly a summer only tire. It surprises me then that an all-seaon Pirelli would be so crummy in snow.

Ultimately an all-season tire is just mediocre at everything. I've avoided them for many years. Yes twice the cost to get season specific tires, but at twice or longer the longevity. Gotta rotate them every 6 mos for sure.

I currently run a set of Yokohama A520's on Virgo's for the summer and Kumho Izen's on 14" steel for the winter. Neither set have ever left me stranded and both have very good wear and noise characteristics.

I agree totally on the NordFrosts - My father has a set of 4 on his V70 AWD. I can say one thing about that car in winter - SOMEBODY TRY TO STOP ME!!!!

Happy Bricking!!!

Richard

87 245 DL 371,000 km
82 242 GLT 121,000 km

Yeah!! The P4000s are just terrible!!! I had them with my 15" Draco's and the ride quality and traction sucked with about 3/4 tread left. They would slip and peel out in even the smallest puddle. Currently riding on the 14's again with Michelin X-Ones all season. Drastic improvement IMO.
-Adam
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'92 244GL silver-metallic, 146k, Bilstein HDs, IPD sways, upper+lower chassis braces, Cherry-Turbo strut brace, 240 OEM rear wing, 15" Draco Rims, Full E-code lighting w/side repeaters, Magnaflow 2.5" mandrel SS exhaust w/Unitek header (Jethot coated)

The message is that dedicated snow tires work. My 740T came with Canadian Tire all-seasons; terrible on snow and ice. With Michelin Arctic Alpins, I feel completely confident in serious winter conditions. The 740 is almost as much fun in the snow as my 122 wagon was!

Yes, we see lots of four-wheel-drives, even Volvos, in the ditches around here when it snows! The right tires (and the right attitude) are much more important than the number of driven wheels.

"Yes, we see lots of four-wheel-drives, even Volvos, in the ditches around here when it snows! The right tires (and the right attitude) are much more important than the number of driven wheels."

Amen. . .that's the best way I've heard it put so far

Just put the snow tires on my wife's '94 945T on Thursday...Gislaved Nordfrost on all four corners.

She also works the graveyard shift, Fridays and Saturdays only, at one of the local casinos. Driving time door to parking lot is about 45 minutes from our home in central Rhode Island. Anyhow she got to work on Friday with no issues only to find that the two employees that work under her had both called out...and they only live 10 minutes away!!! Not sure if it's a testament to my wife's determination/dedication or to the quality of the Gislaved's?! If it weren't for those tires I don't think I'd let her out of the house with snow on the ground.

My GT, on the other hand, had lots of trouble with the "summer" tires. Not sure if they are M+S rated. The roads were so slippery soon after the storm started that I couldn't make it up a slight incline to get out of the parking lot at work. Thankfully I live close to where I work (sorry honey!) so I was able to walk home. Good thing too since the road that I take home has a decent hill that I have to go down, no less than 6 cars were spun out/on the side of the road/or kissing another vehicle... Sad to say but one of them was an XC90 (it was quite slippery, not really icey though).

It's gonna be a long winter!
Bean
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'80 242GT 91k, '94 945T 110k

Two winters ago I was working in N.H. and ended up going to one of the tire stores there. Bought a pair of Wintermaster snows.I had seen them but never heard how they were. I bought them because the snow was coming and they were cheap. I got the 205-70-14s and they were great.Drove back to Syracuse every weekend all winterlong. Never slipped or slid unless I was trying.They wore like iron. I know that they're an off brand, but they are good. I'd stack them up against anything out there.I used the regular snows in the back with a normal all season tire up front.Drove through some really nasty stuff(we average over 170" of snow!)with confidence.