Hello,
I had the clutch replaced about one year/15,000 miles ago. I recently changed the transmission fluid because it was getting hard to shift into first gear (and I change it every year). I tried Mobil 1 and it was too slippery (missing shifts) so I put in Pennzoil ATF (no more missed shifts). Now it is getting really hard to shift into first gear. Everyone says use Redline MTL. How do I know if it is the fluid or some adjustment?

Also what do you think about what Grimshaw says?

http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Volvo_Books/trans2.html

Please help.
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1990 240- 245K- Original Owner-M-47, VX cam, IPD sprt springs, bilstiens, spt exh, euro lamps-turbo whls,- still slow but handles well- Near Houston

what about your shift bushings?

steve
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'90 245 DL 253K M47

Along with the shifter adjustment advice below, here's a clutch test: with engine idling, depress clutch FULLY and wait a few seconds, then...does the selection of reverse with a cold trans proceed silently, but you get a 'crunch' once things are hot - almost no matter how long you wait after depressing the clutch? Is first gear selection at a dead stop easier with a cold trans? These would be signs that the clutch disk is not releasing fully from the flywheel (or maybe the pressure plate). What's happening in these tests is that cold trans fluid is much more viscous and will slow down the spinning shafts and enhance synchronizer operation. With hot, thinned out fluid, a bad or badly adjusted clutch will keep the input shaft spinning, so you crunch into reverse (no synchro's) and have to use force to get it into first.

Another possibility is a failed pilot bearing that is snagging the trans input shaft.

I'm one of those who has tried Redline MTL and been very pleased with the results. But it won't cure a bad clutch.


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Bob (81-244GL B21F, 83-244DL B23F, 94-944 B230FD plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

Hi Bob,

Your test seems to nail it down for me. But to avoid the crunch, all I need to do is go into 2nd before either going into 1st or reverse, than no crunch. Also no crunch when the engine/tranny are cold as you say.

So here what do you suggest? Synthentic such as RedLine?
Otherwise what kind of adjustment besides the locking plate for reverse in the shift knob can be done? Any adjustment with the cable?
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'89 244DL M47 159K miles

At a dead stop, putting the trans into first or second before shifting into reverse causes the sychros on those gearsets to arrest the rotation of the input shaft, although they have to work harder if the clutch (or pilot bearing) is not freeing that shaft up completely. Once the shaft is stopped, it takes a moment for it to to start spinning again (mainly because of the inertia of the clutch disc), so you can select reverse without clashing gear teeth, if you do it quickly enough.

If the trans goes more smoothly into first gear if you briefly put it into second just before, it's the essentially same thing. The second gear synchros may be in better shape than the ones on first gear, and do a better job of stopping the input shaft.

Bottom line is the same: you need to find and correct the problem, because the way things are now, you are causing accelerated wear to expensive parts of the trans.
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Bob (81-244GL B21F, 83-244DL B23F, 94-944 B230FD plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

Thanks Bob.

I think the situation is as follow (although it seems much better since I have changed the fluid and overfilled) :

1) First gear
Hard to get into it from dead stop, no crunch, just hard to shift into it from neutral. Was much harder or even impossible before fluid change. Now I can get into it, but feels "stiff". If I go into 2nd before going into 1st the "stifness" is gone.

2) Reverse
Get occasionally a crunch noise. I have noticed that whenever I go into 2bnd before going into reverse I never get the crunch.

Bottom line Bob, do you think I absolutely need to have a mechanic look at the synchro? Or can I live with this? The car does shift in all gears. When the car is moving I have no problem whatsover, it is only when tranny is hot and I go from dead stop from neutral to either 1st or reverse that it is either hard to shift (stifness of 1st) or crunch (reverse) if I don't go into 2nd.

I am damaging the tranny by driving like that?

Thanks for your most useful tips and explanations. Very informative for me.
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'89 244DL M47 159K miles

There's no need to get into the trans at this point! My bet is that the clutch is the problem - it's simply not disengaging fully. There are a number of reasons why this can happen: clutch misadjusted; clutch worn out; clutch relaes arm cracked or bent; release bearing worn out; rear main bearing oil seal leaking, means oil on clutch and flywheel, means heat of clutch action can "varnish" that oil and cause clutch to stick to flywheel (or pressure plate).

Your difficulty in selecting first gear at a stop (have to force the lever) is confirmation that the clutch is not disengaging completely. So is the crunch going into reverse. Reverse is the only gear in the box that does NOT have synchronizers, so it will tell you immediately if the input shaft is still spinning. Even with a perfectly good clutch, if you try to catch reverse too quickly after depressing the clutch pedal it will crunch, as the shafts are still spinning in the trans. If you wait several seconds and it still crunches - clutch is not disengaging fully.

Have someone familiar with 240's check your clutch.
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Bob (81-244GL B21F, 83-244DL B23F, 94-944 B230FD plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

Another sure fire test is to turn the engine off if it goes right into first then the input shaft is still spinning when the car is running. I had this problem about 6 months ago. I had put on a used clutch (out of a wrecked turbo) and not changed the pilot bearing. I changed the pilot bearing and greesed the splines on the input shaft and still had the same problem. I finally got a new clutch disk and this solved the problem. For some reason the used disk was binding on the splines. Its all moot now because a bearing went in my m47 and it has been replaced by an m46. The m46 is supposed to be much less sensitive about input shaft spinning.

Hi Jessie,

What is the procedure to put a new clutch disk in?
What are the tools needed?
You simply replace the old, but are they any adjustments to be made and special tools required?

Thanks for sharing your experience and any tips you may have.
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'89 244DL M47 159K miles

I didn't mean to imply that the clutch disk was your problem. It is one of the possibilities. Is you clutch cable tight enough? Was the pilot bearing replaced when you did the clutch? was the splined shaft greased? If its not your cable all of the other fixes involve taking the gearbox and clutch off. Then replace the pilot bearing (its cheap and not worth messing with an old one that might cause you to have to take the gearbox off again) and make sure the clutch disk slides freely on the splined shaft. Most people use a little grease onthe input shaft to help the disk slide freely. The other thing to check is that the pressure plate is not warped.
It is a real pain. I ended up taking my gearbox off twice before I got the problem solved. The only way I could have avoided this was to replace everthing with new parts the first time. I think the disk I had must have had a nick or burr on it that we could not find, which made it bind when the car was warm (it was fine when cold)

I changed my transmission fluid with Castrol ATF type F and overfilled it (put in 2 quarts instead of the 1.6).

It did help somewhat with the shifting, before fluid change I could never go directly into 1st, I always had to go in 2nd and then 1st whenever I was at a stop or traffic light. Other option was to go to 1st and stay there without going in neutral.

Now it is still hard to shift in 1st, but I can from neutral.

I will try the plate adjustment though and also maybe lubing the clutch cable.
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'89 244DL M47 159K miles

Try lifting the reversing ring as you go into 1st. If with the ring lifted, your car goes into 1st easily, you need to adjust the lockout plate.

If you pull up on the reverse lock out ring is it easier to get into first gear? If so an adjustment is what you need. Carefully remove the boot and watch the workings of the mechanism. See how the dynamics change when you pull the reverse lockout up a little. Make an adjustment that will keep things in that position without raising up on the reverse lock out ring and you should be good to go.

Randy

Randy,

When you peel the boot off, there are 2 plastic retaining screws in front and in back, how do you unclip these? I don't want to break them. Right now my boot comes off only on the side. I don't see how to unclip these plastic thingy on both ends.

Thanks.
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'89 244DL M47 159K miles

I'm sorry it has been a very long time since I even looked at the setup on an M47. Someone else who is more familiar with it is going to have to walk you through it. If need be you can make a new post asking for specific help. Sorry.

Randy

few years ago i did some repair on my friends 1991 740 M47 gearbox. bearing was worn and needed replacement. ATF fluid 12378329 (European) meeting Dexron-III and Mercon standards was poured in. car has driven after that about 30 thousand miles and works great. you have sth to do with that reverse shift thing, what the others pointed too! cheers!
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i prefer non-german cars