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Hello,
I just purchased a local 1991 240 sedan for my daughter to drive. The car has 177K on the clock, so it is "just broken in".
I have 4 years experience with SAAB's, so I have some Swedish experience.
The car drives great, auto trans. shifts well. The previous owner advised me that it "uses some oil". As soon as I got the car home, I inspected the bottom area just below engine & trans, and discovered a good puddle of engine oil, which appears to originate near the torque converter. By visual inspection, this looks like a rear engine seal problem to me.
My questions...
1. Is this a DIY repair? I presume the trans. will have to be removed to gain access to the seal. Anyone who has done this themselves or paid an INDY
mechanic, please advise the grief and/or cost.
2. Is there a good ref. book available with adequate details for all aspects of maintenance of this car? For my SAAB collection we use a BENTLEY manual which is excellent.
Thanks in advance. So far the car looks very clean, needs the exhaust replaced from the CAT backward, which I will do.
DET
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If you have access to engine lifter, lifting engine and transmission togather is the easiest method. By far it is safest approach as well, considering that most accidents happen when the transmission tips over at removal process.
It would be more work, but less frustration. Esp. trying to get that top bolt at bell housing.
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As part of your flame trap check, make sure you check the vaccum hose that runs from the flame trap to the throttle body. I just found one totally plugged on one of our 240's and it was blowing oil all over. I hadn't realized this would plug. I had faithfully cleaned the flame trap but totally missed this. Also check the brass nipple on the throttle body this hose attaches to.
Lyle
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it appears to originate near the torque converter. hi there your probably right but check the rear camshaft plug, feel back there with your hand with the valve cover on, or look with a flashlight and a small mirror. they pop loose and spill oil all over. that would be great. good luck
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I have a 90 240 wagon with about 165,000 that was leaking oil at the rear main seal.
I cleaned out the flame trap and made sure the breather box had air coming through with the engine running.
My oil leak dissappeared, I've heard that depending on how bad the leak is the seal can reseat itself if the pressure is relieved?
Much easier and cheaper than doing the rear main seal.
Good luck and watch the Board
--
My .02, Chapster out
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posted by
someone claiming to be jwalker
on
Thu Feb 26 07:28 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
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I second this! My exact experience!!
Cleaned everything out about a year and half ago and the oil leak has been minimal ever since. As suggested, read up about this on the 700/900 FAQ.
My car now has 232K and leaks/burns about a quart between oil changes. I can live with that....
Car will run better too!
Jim 90 244DL 232K
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DET:
I have done three of these in the past couple years; two in conjunction with clutch jobs and one on an automatic transmission car just because I was tired of oil staining the driveway. If you pay a mechanic, you are spending $4-500 to replace a $10 seal. For DIY, you need a good floor jack, four good jack stands and probably a transmission jack. The hardest part is probably the bolt at the very top of the bell housing; I've found that you can get this most easily by using about 3' of extensions and a universal on the 19mm socket. The ratchet will be way back near the shifter. Also, if this is a northern (exposed to road salt) car, the bellhousing may be "frozen" to the locating "pins" at the rear of the engine due to corrosion. Use lots of PB 'Blaster, patience and a prybar. And be careful not to damage the RPM crank position sensor at the very top of the bellhousing.
I've also found that once everything is exposed, it's easiest to remove the seal housing, and take it to the workbench to press out the old seal and press in the new one. So you'll also need to buy the seal housing gasket at a whopping $1.50 or so. Two of the seal housing bolts come up vertically through the oil pan. Be careful and the oil pan gasket won't be damaged. A bit of RTV when reassembling will help. The seal housing gasket will probably have to be trimmed at the bottom as well. Have fun!
--
Mike W., '79 242GT (project car), '85 245DL (daily driver 1), '87 245 DL (daily driver 2), '90 244DL (project car), '91 744T (daily driver 3), '92 245DL (parts car), '94 944T (wifemobile), Largo, FL
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Mike,
Many thanks for the details. I have been there, done that, with Saab 900's,
but the 240 will be new for me. In many ways, it looks to be easier in some aspects, worse on others (i.e. clutch in my 900).
The debate is always whether to yank engine/trans complete, or just drop the
trans. I don't know if possible, but on domestic RWD cars, I have dropped the
trans. support so the engine pivots up/down, which gains some access for the
dreaded top bolt.
Many here seem to think the flametrap fix might stop this leaking...I guess I
will try this first and see if the leakage subsides.
Who do you recommend for parts? I have had good luck with eEuroparts.com for
my 900 addiction. Last, why is it the wifemobile is alway the newest :o) ?
thanks,
DET
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Yes, by all means fix the flametrap issue, and make sure that the brass vacuum fitting(s) on the throttle body are clear; sometimes you have to use a small drill bit to ream out the coked crud in there.
Something else you might try, which most would call a "snake oil" cure, is a regimen of Auto-RX. This is an additive which will clean up your engine's internals, and supposedly help with old seals. Lots of people on www.bobistheoilguy.com have used Auto-RX and had good luck with it. You can add it to engine oil, ATF, etc. I used some to stop a power steering rack leak in my '85 245. It DOES work.
Actually, I think it's a lot easier to just drop the trans, not to pull the engine and trans together. You have to remove an awful lot of stuff to pull the engine and trans together. And on an auto tranny car, the shifter is much easier to deal with, just a couple of "E" retaining clips to remove and the linkage is out of the way. Yes, you have to disconnect the ATF cooler lines, but this is a good time to flush out the old fluid anyway.
You can't go wrong buying from IPD (www.ipdusa.com), although for some items they are more expensive. I've had very good luck dealing with Nick from www.fcpgroton.com.
Why is the wifemobile always the newest/nicest car? Because if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy! Actually, it should be the daughter away at college who has the newest or most reliable car. And in fact, my daughter did have the '94 944T for awhile at college, until she got married. Now her transportation issues are my son-in-law's problem. And my wife has the 940 back!
--
Mike W., '79 242GT (project car), '85 245DL (daily driver 1), '87 245 DL (daily driver 2), '90 244DL (project car), '91 744T (daily driver 3), '92 245DL (parts car), '94 944T (wifemobile), Largo, FL
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Good advice on getting to the top bolt.
I'd like to add that the flywheel MUST be bolted on in the same position that it came off. On the '89+ cars the timing is controlled by the RPM crank sensor that mike w. mentioned. The FAQ has a blurb, maybe even some pictures about it somewhere...
If you don't do the rear seal yourself, and your mechanic isn't Volvo saavy, then make sure you tell him/her about the flywheel. If they install it incorrectly (even one bolt) your timing will be off and your car will either a) not run or b) run like crap. He'll have to pull the tranny again to make things right.
Glad you asked how I know: :)
This happened to me when I had my '90 244. Muscle Car mechanic (one of the best in CT) friend of my dad's did my clutch job for $600. At the time I didn't know much about engines, and to boot I had just bought the car the day before he did the job so I didn't have a "feel" for how it ran. After the new clutch, the car ran okay, save for a slight shake at idle, good gas mileage, etc...failed emissions which had me throwing lots of parts ($$) to try to make it pass. After a year of dealing with it (I got an emissions waiver since I spent so much) a friend finally checked my timing with a timing light. The timing mark on the harmonic balance was nowhere to be seen, it was off the scale...under the alternator. My flywheel was off by one bolt (45+ degrees)!!! I didn't want to approach my dad's friend about it since it was a year past when he did the job, instead I took it upon myself to pull the tranny and re-align the flywheel. It was tough work but I completed it in a day. I learned a TON about my car, both from research on the BB and doing the job myself, and am no longer afraid of tackling big repair jobs. From now on instead of paying $600 for parts and labor for a clutch, I'll only spend $200 on parts. :)
Good luck with the oil leak.
Bean
--
'80 242GT 91k, '94 945T 110k
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I did it myself and found it a miserable task that almost brought me to tears...
Definitely not as easy as removing the trans on my Big Block Nova, but not that difficult either... it depends on your tool set. Doing this on the ground, on your back, in a tight space, without the right stuff will break you...
Maybe you have a stout constitution, a good tool set, and a great work space... then, the Bentley and the FAQ (as Rhaire notes) will be your best friend.
It isn't a complex task, more like tedious and slow... but, the problem will not fix itself -time is not on your side.
Plus, it is your daughter we are talking about. My friend, who owns a foreign car repair facility in New Jersey, charges roughly $500 for labor and the parts are cheap... go OEM for the seals as it is not cost prohibitive.
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1. Is this a DIY repair? I presume the trans. will have to be removed to gain access to the seal. Anyone who has done this themselves or paid an INDY mechanic, please advise the grief and/or cost.
The most common cause of oil leaks at the seals in a 240 is not the seals themselves, but rather a clogged PCV system, resulting in pressure building up in the crankcase. The most likely culprit is the flame trap and its related plumbing, which lives between the 2nd and 3rd cylinders, just under the intake manifold. Cleaning it is not difficult, and it is something you should do every other year or so. Also make sure your oil breather isn't clogged. Once you have the flame trap off you can test your oil breather by attaching a length of 5/8" vinyl tubing to the hole in the breather, taking off the oil filler cap and blowing air into the vinyl tubing. If you can blow air easily and have it come out through the oil filler that means your oil breather is not obstructed and you don't have to remove it to clean or replace it.
On the brickboard there is a FAQ list for 700-900 models (go to the top of the page and pull down the menu for "features"). Most of this information applies to your year of 240 since it has the same engine as the 700 and 900 models. Here is the FAQ info on the PCV system and flame trap: http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineSealsBeltsVent.htm#Crankcase_Ventilation_%20A_Treatise
If the problem is indeed your rear seal, it does involve dropping the tranny. Whether or not this is a DIY job will depend on your level of skill.
2. Is there a good ref. book available with adequate details for all aspects of maintenance of this car? For my SAAB collection we use a BENTLEY manual which is excellent.
By far the Bentley is the favorite manual here. The Haynes manual is pretty good, but not as thorough as the Bentley. The Chilton is not recommended.
But even the Bentley doesn't have ALL aspects of maintenance in it. That's where the brickboard comes in.
So far the car looks very clean, needs the exhaust replaced from the CAT backward, which I will do.
Welcome to the brickboard. It will see you through many years of happy bricking. If you will be keeping this car for a long time, say 5 years or more, I would recommend going with a Volvo cat and exhaust system. It's pricier but comes with a lifetime warranty I believe. If this car is only going to be in the family for a few years, the aftermarket cats and exhaust systems (you can get them from fcpgroton.com) are inexpensive (probably under $250 for everything) and will work well. It's not a difficult repair, especially if your cat is the original, non-welded cat.
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You will want to check the crankcase breather plumbing for the possibility of pressure build up due to a clogged flame trap. You will find a lot of information in the 700/900 FAQ's under FEATURES dropdown at the top of the page. Much of the information there dealing with the transmission and engine will be the same for your car. Lots of good reading and helpful information. Also use the search function at the bottom of the page and in your case- flame trap -would be a good place to start.
Removing the transmission is relatively easy compared to the Saabs! That will be outlined in the FAQ's as well if it becomes necessary. Good luck with your new Volvo. I believe you will find it to be a good car for your daughter- nearly bullet proof if you can teach her to keep an eye on the oil and coolant levels.
Randy
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Bentley also makes a 240 repair manual. Its a good one to get. Rear main oil leaks are fairly common. My 1990 Sedan also has a leak there. I haven't done this job yet so I can't really offer the best advice.
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1990 240 Sdn 277K,tach,strut brace,turbo sway 1990 240 Wgn M47II 157K,tach,strut brace,poly bushings,IPD sways
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