|
|
|
I’ve got an ‘86 245, with a regular B230F. A couple weeks ago, I was fooling with the ignition timing in an effort to get my NOx down for emissions retesting. I was just trying to retard it a bit, as I had read about in other posts on this site. I expected the car to run poorly, but I didn’t have any good idea about just how bad it would be. I was barely able to drive it down to the inspection station because it had almost no power at all. Ironically, my government-run inspection facility just waived my emissions test when I got there because the car ran so badly. Basically, the car was so messed up that they took pity on me and just let me pass. So I met my legal obligations, but now I’m left with a car that I can’t really drive any where. I have readjusted the timing to get it back in spec where it was, but the car is still running like crap. My guess is that something else was affected when I was messing around with the distributor.
So these are the symptoms…
First of all, it idles pretty rough, even when it’s warm. I doubt any old 240s idle really nicely given the way the motor mounts are designed, but I'm talking about some serious shaking. Probably about .75" of movement back and forth at the oil fill cap. It smooths out above 1500 rpm or so. But rough idle isn’t my biggest concern now.
The main problem is that it seems to be flooding… I don’t know how else to describe it. If the throttle is applied quickly, the engine will begin to stall until the throttle is released. It will die if you don’t immediately release the throttle. In the engine bay, if I open the throttle quickly a few times in a row, the engine will almost die each time and then pick back up to regular idle. This is followed by a very strong smell of gas in the engine bay. The engine will run fine as long as you take the speed up really slowly and without any load (parked and out of gear).
In driving this means the car will stall if there are any sudden moves. I have to come off the clutch really really slowly in order not to stall. About a quarter-inch of pedal depression gives me the most power. More pressure than that, and it starts to jerk from trying to stall (this is what it did for the emissions inspection guy that let me go). Stop signs and red lights are a major pain, because it is very difficult to avoid stalling when starting from a stop.
One last bit of info that might be useful is that when I open the throttle quickly (and get that near-stalling effect) it is accompanied by a very short burst of a faint hissing sound from the throttle/air intake area. That implies that it might be vacuum related, and it might be, but I looked all around for any signs of air or fuel going in or out anywhere, and I couldn’t find any. It could just be that the sound was always there and I never noticed it before.
Have any ideas? What should I be looking for? What might I have damaged when getting the distributor to turn (it was stuck in place without the hold down bolt)? Any severed cruddy wiring harnesses that could cause this problem? I don’t have a lot of experience with troubleshooting engine power problems on this car because this is the first time I’ve had to deal with any. Thanks for all your help…
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Chrissij
on
Mon May 10 14:54 CST 2004 [ RELATED]
|
|
I'm gonna hazard a guess...if the timing belt was a little loose, and you turned your distributor...I'd be guessing you could be a tooth or more off. What you're describing sounds just like jumped timing.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Sounds like you guys agree spark could be an issue. I'm going to replace the cap and wires. I think the wires were too taunt before, and now with the twisting, might not be making contact. I know the cap needs to be replaced because it got a nick in the base where it sits down on the metal base of the distributor. I intended to replace it soon, but didn't know if that could be part of the problem or not. I figured the engine wouldn't run at all if I was down a plug or two... learn more all the time. I'll check all that air intake stuff out too. I'll let you all know what I find out. Thanks so much!
|
|
-
|
|
Regarding weak spark, several regulars here seem to agree that running resistor plugs AND resistor wire is not a good thing.
One or the other but not both is recommended.
Just one more thing to consider.
--
Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
|
|
-
|
|
I had accidently fitted WR7s combined with resistor leads, fouled them in about 1500 kms. Weak spark bad.
--
Drive it like you hate it
|
|
-
|
|
|
Regarding weak spark, several regulars here seem to agree that running resistor plugs AND resistor wire is not a good thing.
I'll be one of the regulars to disagree with that. His '86 ignition system was designed to run with BOTH resistor plugs and resistor wires. By decreasing the resistance in the system, he'll burn through plugs and dist caps a lot quicker. -not to mention running the coil harder.
In my '87 I'm running my ignition system just as Volvo specs it: Bougicourd wires (resitance) and Volvo plugs (also resistance) and she runs great. I got the wires for $5 at my local scrap yard (almost new), and the plugs come in a blister pack of 4 for $11 from the dealership. Don't use Platinum plugs because they've got more resistance than the system is designed for and will cause idle issues.
Of note, some of the earlier 240/260 vehicles had resistor wires and NON-resistor plugs. However, I believe that they also used a different ignition coil in those cases or some other means to generate the proper spark for the hardware it had to pass through.
God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
--
'87 Blue 245, NA 238K
|
|
-
|
|
|
What messes up a cap is marking between the contacts inside, moisture
inside, or cracks in it near where the terminals are.
A nick in the base (unless it causes the cap to not seat correctly)
should not be a problem. If you can wipe it clean and shiny inside and
the contacts are not burnt up, it should be OK. I suspect your problem
is NOT in the cap.
--
George Downs, Bartlesville, Oklahoma, Central US
|
|
-
|
|
|
Something happened while the distributor was being manipulated. It sunds like it is not firing on all cylinders. I bet that a wire from the distributor has been moved and is not making contact. check for spark at the plug.
--
Simon 80 240 296k 17 years.
|
|
-
|
|
|
What, exactly, did you do to retard the timing? I ask because there is really no way to adjust the timing on these cars. The distributor can be rotated somewhat to advance and/or retard the timing to a certain extent, but that's about it. If you fooled around with the crank pulley, which has "timing marks" that are utilized when installing a new timing belt, then you need to go back to square one following the procedure outlined in Haynes etc. for installing a new belt. Try this first before you start replacing parts left and right.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yes, I have the older adjustable type. I can adjust from 0 to more than 20 degrees BTC. I've set it to the spec 12 or so degrees at idle of 750 rpm. I had previously tried to set it down near 0.
|
|
-
|
|
|
"Yes, I have the older adjustable type. I can adjust from 0 to more than 20 degrees BTC. I've set it to the spec 12 or so degrees at idle of 750 rpm. I had previously tried to set it down near 0."
Are you making these adjustments by rotating the distributor? Bosch or Chrysler ignition? I must have the later Bosch system (red cap).
I still think that your timing belt is off and that there is a good chance that "reinstalling" it will solve your problem.
|
|
-
|
|
|
"there is really no way to adjust the timing on these cars."
That's true for '89 240s on, with EZK ignition, but the earlier Volvo/Chrysler timing is adjustable.
--
Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
|
|
-
|
|
|
SOunds to me like you've got a big vacuum leak. Look at the large ribbed plastic air hose from the AMM to the intake. Any cracks or splits? Take a look where it rubs on the fender. If there are any holes in it, there's unmetered air getting in. A new hose cost me $14 from FCP Groton for my old 86. Ran much better after replacing it.
Cleaning out the throttle body is always recommended as well. The gasket for the throttle body is $1. The can of carb cleaner will set you back $4. I'm sure it needs it.
With the way it's running you may also have fouled plugs. Replace the plugs and cap & rotor if necessary.
Good luck with it!
--
Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: '87 244DL/M47- 229K, 88 744GLE- 218K, 82 245T-181K Also responsible for the care and feeding of: 88 745GLE, 231K, 87 244DL, 239K, 88 245DL, 246K
|
|
-
|
|
|
how's the harness? any flaking on the outside means problems on the inside.
any chance 1 or 2 of the plugs wires are loose? poor spark will act like too much fuel.
pull the vacuum hose of the pressure regulator and see if there's fuel in it. good luck, chuck.
|
|
|
|
|
