Just wondering if a K&N filter investment is worth the 34 dollars?

Thanks,

JBeechcraft

re: Just wondering if a K&N filter investment is worth the 34 dollars?


It's almost a part of USA culture that those that design cars are without knowledge and that any old high school dropout can go to K-Mart and buy parts that will improve his vehicle.

This "culture" is very extensively promoted and taken advantage of by the aftermarket.

Now, it is true that your Volvo is designed (well) to be X--it's indeed "optimized"-- and you may wish Y, but it should be obvious if you modify your car to Y you will no longer have X and will in all liklihood experience tradeoffs where something is lost when something else is gained. And, I don't just mean the $$ "given" (not invested) to the aftermarket.

Yes, it is interesting that there is simultaneously a "culture" around Volvos that they are safe, practical, well designed, fun, etc. cars and yet another approach that Volvo designers instead did all the wrong things and "just didn't optimize" the cars. They are, after all, engineers and we don't like or trust people with education and degrees and experience, right? Yup, those "smarts" we assign ourselves for owning Volvos aren't the same thing. Yes, those Volvo engineers just couldn't stand up to the bean counters, but we are men of steel when it comes to aftermarket hype.

Corollary to this--although Volvo isn't it--there are cars out there where cost is no object. New cars, I mean, where all the latest technology is known and available and incorporated. Funny, then, isn't it, that on those cost-no-object cars one doesn't find K&N filters either? In fact, one finds more or less the same kind of filters Volvo specifies. But, we don't let little "facts" like this stand in the way of the aftermarket "religion" and the shade tree mechanic mythology, do we?

Note: Please don't think I despise the aftermarket. They sell you ego gratification and there's nothing wrong with that. Yes, you get to think you, personally, have beaten the system, and that's a precious thing. They just don't sell you a physical improvement in the case of K&N, and there may be other costs--engine wear, fouled air mass sensor--as well. Isn't usually ego gratification the most expensive thing?

Of course, NT. No facts to present.

I say save your money.

Some conflicting info, but from what I have seen and heard, you're not likely to see any noticeable performnace increase with the K&N. Also, filtration ability with the K&N may be worse, not better. If it's the oil type, be aware that oil has been speculated to cause problems with the AMM. Like we need more problems with those things.

http://www.funcarsonline.com/ubbthreads/printthread.php?Cat=&Board=996T&main=57988&type=thread

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
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Greg P. 1988 240 DL 'Olga' 170,000 miles

"Actually in many cases the oil screws up the MAFs...I've seen test after test (and we've done dyno tests) where the K&N makes NO difference or actually has slightly worse flow.

The only positive tests I've seen have been on large displacement V8s or V10s."

=)
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Let's think about some fundamental principles: the only way the K&N or any filter can increase airflow (with a given pressure drop across the filter) or reduce the pressure drop (for a given airflow) is by reducing the restriction. This happens either by a greater surface area with the same size of micropores in the filtering element, or the same size of pores, and a larger overall element area. I've seen the K&N and it has LESS element area than the stock paper unit. So, the pores have to be larger, which means that along with increased airflow is increased particulate size entering your engine.

If I was living in a dusty area, the K&N would not just be at the bottom of my list, it would be right off it.

The B21/23/230 engines ranged from, what? 100-114BHP? Our Dodge Caravan has a 3.8 liter (65% larger than a B230) and its air filter is about the same size or a little smaller!! Assuming the Chrysler engineers are not stupid, the Volvo filter has to be more than enough for the job.
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Bob (81-244GL B21F, 83-244DL B23F, 94-944 B230FD; plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

logic goof!..I should have said "...or larger pores with the same size of element area...". Since no one corrected, either y'all knew what I was fumbling to say - (or no one read the post).

Automotive engineers are far from stupid, but their "ideal" designs are often watered down by the cost-efficiency folks at the factory. Your car engine IS optimized from the factory! It's optimised to fit the compromise. The compromise of: power; fuel efficiency; reliability; smoothness and silence; infrequent need for tune-ups; emissions; easy starting and cold running...a very long list. That said there's no technical downside, and zero incremental expense, in making an air filter big enough to handle the engine's needs and then some.

When assessing the benefits of any engine modifications, I've learned to trust a stopwatch, timing lights, many back-to-back fillups and mileage calculations...ANYTHING but the seat of my pants. The trouble is that you want so badly for the marketing claims to be true, that you really are not objective. You need measurable evidence. And one's butt is a poor measuring tool.

I have read SAE (yes, I'm an engineer) papers in which they state that very few drivers can detect power/torque improvements of less than 10%, and none detected changes of less than 5%.
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Bob (81-244GL B21F, 83-244DL B23F, 94-944 B230FD; plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

Car engineers aren't necessarily stupid, they just don't design things with performance being the only thing on their mind. Don't ask me why, but my parents 3.0L caravan has a throttle body smaller than that on our 1.8L jetta. Cars are not optimised from the factory, especially the engine in your dodge caravan. Out of smaller engines comparable minivans are pumping out more power out of smaller displacements. What i'm saying is, things are not optimised from the factory, and a K&N only helps get rid of some of the restriction. It is just added restriction to the already great restriction that you already have on your stock car. Why not reduce the amount of restriction you have? Sometimes you don't notice it, sometimes you do. For example, replacing the restrictive stock airbox on our 1.8L jetta (had an intake snorkel probably 1" in diameter) with a big K&N directly attached to the MAF greatly increased throttle response, high rpm breathing, and slightly improved gas mileage. This will not be found when you only swap in a K&N into the stock location, but, it will help slightly, and with a few other little mods, you can notice an effect.
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Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) AWAITS ME OUTSIDE!!! (check out my cardomain site, kneedsacar)

Right.. but.. your Volvo is neither a Jetta nor a Caravan. The intake is quite free flowing, and a K&N will yield minimal, if any, benefit.

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alex

'89 765T, 173,6xx mi

True, minimal in that effect, but, what does taking out the screens around the AMM do in a NA Volvo? Why do people do that? Same effect as upgrading to a K&N, isn't it?
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Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) AWAITS ME OUTSIDE!!! (check out my cardomain site, kneedsacar)

Same effect. It's basically a Type R sticker that you just can't see from the outside.

If it flows better under dusty conditions, just think about where all that dust is going. It's surely not disappearing in the filter.

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alex

'89 765T, 173,6xx mi

The concensus here seems to add up to it's not worth the money because there's no added benefit.
I totally disagree. There is one major detractor from using the OEM filter and that is when the filter gets slightly clogged, the change in air flow goes down tremendously, and the K&N has minimal pressure drop. This means your engine will run smoother, longer and more stable with time. This outweighs any performance or longevity benefits.
There is enough information out there on the benefits of better flow with a cotton K&N or other type compared to the OEM paper, but in order to realize the flow increase, you must also have the air intake, head and exhaust improved to have better flow. Under theses circumstances, the K&N is by FAR BETTER than the stock filter, and can increase hp by 2-5% over the stock filter.
If your engine is not modified, the stock filter is OK, but change it out like every 10k miles. That is the interval I clean the K&N on both my Volvo's
BTW I noticed a big difference in performance with the K&N on my 960 (unmodified). The 240 air box is pretty restrictive, so mods to it will help a lot, and if you remove the air horn and cut the front of the box open it will be a lot better, and will notice a difference over the stock filter if you do that.
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'89 245 Sportwagon, '96 960 sedan

Even if you're running a heavily modified car, the Volvo filter and intake system will probably be enough. If the OEM turbo filter is enough for a twin turbo V8, I can't imagine you'll do anything to a non-turbo'd engine to warrant a higher flowing unit. I have never looked at the stock non-turbo air filter, but both the B21FT and B230FT filters are huge... plus there's minimal pressure drop across the intake system anyways. False economy really.

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alex

'89 765T, 173,6xx mi

I will put a K&N filter on all of my cars. If it is easy to do, I will also modify the stock intake on all of my cars, or just get a custom intake for it. In your case, or if i owned a 240, i would take care of the little snorkel thing, and have a K&N in there. If you don't believe the performance stuff(if you were to compare a K&N to a regular panel filter of the same size, the K&N still breathes better than stock with half of it covered...) then you can always get it for its reusability instead of changing every 10-20k miles... I hope you get one and post on your experience with it. Peace,
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Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil 68 142 (74 b20, broken m40) AWAITS ME OUTSIDE!!! (check out my cardomain site, kneedsacar)

Greetings,

Depends how long you want to keep your brick and where you live. Up here in Toronto, I have to change a paper filter every 9 mos or so with all the salt, sand and resulting dust that gets kicked up everywhere. A paper filter is about $15 CDN. The K&N cost me $70 CDN with the cleaning and re-oiling kit that gives me 10 "lives". There is no performance benefit whatsoever from a K&N filter in the stock location.

I look at 10 air filters costing me $150, where my K&N costs less than half and gets even cheaper after the 10th. Worth it to me...

Happy Bricking!!!

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Richard - '87 245 DL , '82 242 GLT - Half a million km between them!!!

Save your money.

You're probably looking for more horsepower by reducing intake restrictions. Thanks to good engineering, the 200 & 700 series Volvos have very little restriction to begin with. The only noticable improvements that you could make would be to the snorkle tube that goes from the airbox to the front of the radiator (make it larger), and remove the rear screen from the Air Mass Meter if not already done so (but yeilds very little improvement). The rest of the intake system, the Throttle Body, Accordian Tube, airbox, etc, has very minimal drag.

The stock air filter is HUGE as far as automotive standards go in comparison to the size of the engine. You will probably not notice any kind of improvement by replacing the stock paper filter with a surgical-cotton filter. $10 buys a decent paper element that will last you for a decent amount of time (depending on your dust & dirt conditions). If you live in an area with a lot of blowing dust and you have to change your filter at every oil change, -then a reusable filter such as a K&N might be worth the money.

FYI, I personally use the WIX Premium air filters in my vehicles (lots of pleats, good flow, and good filtration). -they are also rebadged as NAPA and CarQuest filters and sold as standard shelf stock. I believe the OEM air filters from Volvo are made by either Mann or Crossland, but I'm not sure which.

God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
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'87 Blue 245, NA 238K

The factory filter SEEMS heavier and restrictive than other options. I had a SMALL noticeable change using a cheap WIX filters. I would change it more often though.

mark h.

Don't expect any noticeably performance difference.

In addition, there are many who feel that the filter allows more dirt into the engine. My own experience with Oil Analysis seems to suggest this as well.

If you desire a reusable filter, there may be better choices.

No.
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Jim McDonald