I have a 1991 240 wagon with 140K miles and it's getting time to think about another Volvo. Actutually, I have been holding out for years but presure from my wife and kids is building. I love the engineering in the 240 and the ease to do basic things. It's been a very reliable car. I was hoping to keep it two more years and then give to what will be my 16 year old daughter. She claims it will never get used (perhaps after some serious walking).

Anyway, my dilema is that the newer Volvo's don't seem to get the high reliability from Consumer Reports etc as the old 240s. I was thinking about a 850, S70 or a newer S60 with a stick shift. Am I going to be disappointed with any of these cars in terms of reliability or ease to work on. My non Volvo choice is a Nissan Maxima with a stick shift. Shame on me, I know.

Appreciate to hear from others who have been in my shoes.

Thanks
Greg

All this talk about daughters driving Volvos reminds me of a Volvo commercial from about 1970 - when Volvo's reputation for safety and reliability was already legendary.

It's a dark and stormy night, and a somewhat scrawny young man about 18-20 enters a very nice home to pick up his date. Her father appears, looking very upper-class and conservative (probably even threatening-looking, to the young guy), and extends a set of keys to the young guy, saying: "Here - take my Volvo".
Those four words spoke volumes.

a volvo mechanic told me last week when i was getting some parts for my 86 245: "keep it."

regards,
byron golden
bc1_2002
near houston, tx
86 245 wagon, original owner, 240k+mi

Thanks for all the great responses! I'll print off a few of them and read them to my wife and oldest daughter (both overly materistic) the next time they complaint about my brick - tends to be a weekly discussion. My almost 14 year old hides when I pick her up from sports events in the Volvo(and its a good looking 240). Actually some of her friends think the car is cool. The trade the wife/daugter keep the Volvo posts were very funny!

I forgot about the Vovlo 940 option. I'll keep my eyes open for any low milage ones that hit the market in Chicago/Milwaukee/Madison areas. I'll miss working on the old 4 cyclinder Volvos and hope I can delay that day for 5 or more years.

Greg

I'm glad to hear you decided not to give in.

I can only hope that (should I decide to have kids), my kids won't be so troublesome when it comes to my wagon...

If any son or daughter of mine thinks he or she is going to be allowed to drive anything but a Volvo before moving out, they are going to be doing a lot of walking!
--
If you listen to the radio in Portland, OR, you may know me as 'Portland's Favorite Soul Brother!'

Yea, I've been there too. The Wife & Kids constantly complain about our 245. The Wife doesn't like it because its not as smooth, quiet and zippy as her 2003 VW Golf. The kids don't like it just because its too "old school" for them. But the bottom line is....its paid for and even @ 181k miles, it still seems to have a lot of usable service left.
The funny thing is, while returning home in our 240 from our weekend roadtrip, I was contemplating the exact same question. The only conclusion I've reached is that I'd have to spend at least $30K for a new wagon that would be capable of filling our 245s shoes. And even then, I could never be assured that a new $30k wagon could endure what our current wagon already has. That's not a very pleasant thought, is it? :(

Dude, I'm driving around a standard tranny 1980 245 with just about 433K miles on it...

Tell me again why you are getting rid of your wagon?

You're junking a perfectly good car because your wife and your daughter think it's ugly? That's the only complaint I can think you might get...

If your daughter doesn't want the car, why can't she walk? I just turned 19, and trust me, I was in her spot not too long ago (although I always loved the volvo). I would have driven anything if given the opportunity. Once all her friends start driving, she'll beg you to borrow the wagon.

Don't give in man! Keep some of your dignity!
--
If you listen to the radio in Portland, OR, you may know me as 'Portland's Favorite Soul Brother!'

My parents said that they would help me buy a car and help with the insurance as long as it was a Volvo. I was initially not happy about that. However, after the first drive in a 240 I became hooked. How could anyone not like this car. I would almsot go as far to say that this is one of the best engenered cars in the world.
Good luck, I think you should make your drive the Volvo or walk. She might come to love the Volvo like I have and become a fanatic.
Good luck and happy bricking

I also went the "daughters" route. My elder daughter was happy to drive the '80 dark green wagon with the roofrack, it was a car. Her younger sister threatened and said many times absolutely, positively she would never, ever drive that car. She was told it was the 240, or her feet, or the bus and I was very firm on that. She ended up driving it for a couple of years and had a grudging respect for it by the end. About three years ago when her '93 Suburu Legacy got just too expensive to keep repairing I said I would buy her a car and lend it to her till she could afford her own; but it had to be one that I wanted to drive when she gave it back and it had to be maintained well. I got a one owner '92 240 wagon with 155,000 miles on it - more miles than your 240. The car came with the service manual stamped by the dealer for every service. Two years later, last fall, I got the car back and the car now has 188,000 miles on it and I plan on driving it for several more years; I also still drive the '80. One thing both daughters loved about the 240 wagons is the space! Going to college and then out in the world working they have done a lot of moving in and out of different apartments and the Volvo wagons rule at that! Their friends also really appreciated the wagon as it was used many times to help friends with their moves. Stick to your guns about that 240 being your daughter's car!

What are you asking for it? Dan
--
85 245 M46 195K, 92 245 A70 123K

(sorry for the multiple posts. the board flaked there for a sec)

Folks here will line up to take a late-model stick 245 with a paltry 140k.

It's a car that would last another 10 years from today, easily. I wouldn't say that about an S60. Maybe a 940, maybe not.

Nothing you can buy is as functional and easily maintained as a 240.

Go get a Dodge Caravan. Drive it for 2 years then give it to your daughter. Then she'll *wish* she had a 245.

Tell your family the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it."

Better yet, prepare a spreadsheet on the projected repair costs of a '91 245 vs. repair/payments on an '02 Caravan. Ask your kids if they might be considering college.

Sorry for going off on a rant, but I get real tired of people who consider a 13-year-old car with 140k a washed-up piece of junk

I'm with Evan on this one. My brother recently bought a "gently" used Dodge Caravan from a friend of the family (who was tired of it and the warranty is now expired). So far, the transmission has been changed 5 times (most of them under warranty) and replaced each time with a new tranny. I'm hoping and praying that the existing unit will keep going save my brother some serious headaches and $$$, but I'm not expecting it to. Maybe I'm not as current on disposable technology as I should be, but I thought transmissions were supposed to last more than 20,000 miles...

As far as $$$ per mile, I doubt you will find a more cost effecient vehicle to own than the existing 240 that you have. Assuming that you're not behind in your service schedule, you've got a lot of healthy and safe miles ahead of you. The resale value of the vehicle is worth about one moderate/$$$ trip to the dealership for repairs on a newer vehicle (that's out of warranty).

God bless,
Fitz Fitzgerald.
--
'87 Blue 240 Wagon, 241k miles.

Like i say in my post below, the dodge engine/trannied cars have had their share of tranny problems... The 3.0L engined cars don't have these problems... FWIW...
--
Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil '68 142 (256k, 74 b20, m40, iPd bars, other misc... =D) waits for its next outing... (My Cardomain site)

Folks here will line up to take a late-model stick 245 with a paltry 140k.

It's a car that would last another 10 years from today, easily. I wouldn't say that about an S60. Maybe a 940, maybe not.

Nothing you can buy is as functional and easily maintained as a 240.

Go get a Dodge Caravan. Drive it for 2 years then give it to your daughter. Then she'll *wish* she had a 245.

Tell your family the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it."

Better yet, prepare a spreadsheet on the projected repair costs of a '91 245 vs. repair/payments on an '02 Caravan. Ask your kids if they might be considering college.

Sorry for going off on a rant, but I get real tired of people who consider a 13-year-old car with 140k a washed-up piece of junk

Folks here will line up to take a late-model stick 245 with a paltry 140k.

It's a car that would last another 10 years from today, easily. I wouldn't say that about an S60. Maybe a 940, maybe not.

Nothing you can buy is as functional and easily maintained as a 240.

Go get a Dodge Caravan. Drive it for 2 years then give it to your daughter. Then she'll *wish* she had a 245.

Tell your family the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it."

Better yet, prepare a spreadsheet on the projected repair costs of a '91 245 vs. repair/payments on an '02 Caravan. Ask your kids if they might be considering college.

Sorry for going off on a rant, but I get real tired of people who consider a 13-year-old car with 140k a washed-up piece of junk

Hi Evan,

I love Volvo's. I love 245's! I'm an owner of a 92 245 (123,000 miles) and a 97 Grand Caravan (124,000 miles). I must admit that my Grand Caravan has out performed my Volvo in every category except three: ease of maintenance, brake performance, and gas mileage. The Caravan is faster, smoother, quieter, handles better, rides nicer, has more cargo space, has great air conditioning, has a radio that actually works, doesn't leak, is more reliable, and requires less of my time. I have easily spent four times the number of hours working on my 245 than I have working on my Caravan. I also admit that working on the Caravan is generally not fun. Oil changes are easier than on the 245, but besides that, most everything on the Caravan is more difficult to do. The engine is totally crammed into the engine compartment and it is extremely difficult to work on anything on the back side of the engine. The 245 by comparison is wide open and things are fairly easy to get at (not had to do the blower motor yet, but that heater control valve is a bear). I admit that I am more attached to my 245 and that is probably because I have spent so much time repairing it. But the honest truth is that my Caravan has been a wonderfully reliable and comfortable vehicle that has many advantages over the 245. I wish my Caravan had disc brakes all around, rear wheel drive, and more room in the engine compartment. Besides that, I can't think of anything I would change on it.

I think I know what you're saying - although ours was an 87, not a 97. It was the last holdout non-volvo around here for a couple years until it became so neglected field mice began to call the engine compartment home. Every other Caravan owner is amazed we had no transmission trouble, though aren't fazed that I had the heads off twice (3.0) in 190K. Basically, after acquiring the 240 fleet, the Caravan, though a nicely kept velour interior, became the Saturday dump trip vehicle - subbing for the usual pickup. Left those ball breaking removable seats at one of the first runs. But, even on its trip to donation it fired up smoothly first crank, leaping forward easily if needed. Fun to drive? No. We all felt a bit close to the nose.

If you aren't actually considering a caravan, then you don't really need to read this... =D


My parents have a 97 Caravan SE, not the Grand model, and this particular version came with the 3.0L V6 built by mitsubishi. I love that caravan, it's worth jack now, has 130+k on it, and has never given us problems, except for the valve job it needed at 120k. I had lots of fun driving it around, great stereo, lots of space, and even lighter and roomier when you take the rear seats out. I even took it to a drag strip once... And one other time, i took the seats out, and the hood off, and then rearranged the intake so it is just an open filter sucking in air from above the hood, all using stock stuff that i just took off and reattached in a different position. It's a great car, and i would love to take it off my parents hands. The interior is starting to get old, and the plastics and what not aren't the highest of quality, but i'd like to think that the fact there have been nice trips with 5 kids in there have had something to do with it. If you actually do consider a caravan, i'd look and see if you can get the 3.0 still, i don't think the latest models come with it(but i'd stay away from the newest models anyway because the deflation is huge...) I'd look for the newest/lowest mileage 3.0 Caravan you can find. I suggest this because all the other (dodge engined/transmission cars) have worse transmissions that tend to go out... My friend's parents had a 96 with the 3.3 dodge engine and they had the transmission replaced three times before they sold it and got a 99, and i don't think it has given them problems, but i'm not sure.
FWIW ;)
--
Kyle - attending Ore. State, while my lil '68 142 (256k, 74 b20, m40, iPd bars, other misc... =D) waits for its next outing... (My Cardomain site)

You might have a look a the last year for the 940, 1995 I believe. I bought a 1993 945 with 100,000 miles on it and it has been a very nice car. I've had quite a number of 240s (5) and they were all good cars but the 940 is the best of the lot so far. It will have the final evolution of the red block engine plus better electrical design than the 240. It is quieter also.

I'm not sure about the 850s. I know two owners. One loves his cat but the other has had some very expensive repairs to the ABS.

Sad to hear your dilema. My wife and kid no better than to pressure me to get rid of my 2 1990 Volvo's.
--
1990 240 Sdn 277K,tach,strut brace,turbo sway 1990 240 Wgn M47II 157K,tach,strut brace,poly bushings,IPD sways,bilsteins

Well my smart aleck answer is a newer 240 wagon! If not, how about a 940 wagon? You can still pick up a newer model than what you have. It would share the same attributes that you liked about the 240: Large, easy to work on, and uses the same red block engine. But really, a 240 with 130K is not all that bad.

I do agree with your assessment of the newer Volvos; price too high and reliability too low. I don't know if you want new or used or what your price range is. If I were going to buy a non-Volvo, I would lean toward one of the Subaru wagons or a VW Passat wagon if I wanted a wagon. I like the Volkswagon Passat sedan, also. If you want simple yet dependable and reliable there is always the Toyota Camry or the Honda Accord (this suggestion will receive lots of criticism, but they really do meet these requirements even if they are plain vanilla).

Fun question, and I'll be interested in what everyone else recommends.

Mike
--
Mike Brown Greenville, NC 1996 965 105K 1994 940 135K 1986 244 137K

Definitely the Subaru Legacy wagon: another rare car that has been engineered rather than designed, a bulletproof engine (just avoid the early 2.5l), long service life in general. Also, build quality as good as any other Japanese make (as long as made in Japan: some doubts about the US-built ones). Size and interior space very similar, even if the Sube's boot is a little smaller and there is no dickie seat.

People wanting the high ground clearance of the 200 can have the Outback.

Fordvo: forget it.

George