My amazon saloon 1967 1/2 was finding it difficult to shift between 1st and 2nd yesterday and as I struggled home in 2nd the clutch stopped working completely. Now the reason I DIDN'T think it was a fluid problem was because I filled up the reservoir only about 1500 miles ago, but of course it turned out to be empty. Seemed a bit quick to empty itself.

So, to the question. I leak-chased right from the reservoir down and found nothing until I got to the hydrolics underneath the car. At the point where there is a rubber casing (that you can push back to reveal a threaded bolt) there was a lot of fluid. Which part of the clutch would be failing here? Is it the slave cylinder?

I'll see how long it takes to go half empty again to see how bad the leak is. From my brief description here would you recommend taking action now or could I soldier on?

Thanks as always,

Tom

I had a similar problem. I got less than a week out of it and i had to drive home 30 miles at 2:30am without a clutch. Just the perfect thing to attract the wrong attention from police. I'd recommend fixing it ASAP. It'll only get worse. I ended up having to spend way too much on a new slave, rather than getting the proper parts to rebuild mine. At least i'll have a spare kicking around the garage now.

good luck,
curtis m. white

I went to DOT5 fluid in my clutch cylinders and got them to last over 15
years between rebuilds, and NO corrosion. The rubber parts eventually
just wore out, and got fairly soft. New kit: good as new.

Lotta guys are scared to death of DOT5 because it won't absorb water.
To me that is a good point, since, unlike fluids containing alcohol,
it doesn't attract water either.
--
George Downs, Bartlesville, Oklahoma, Central US

Check your local parts store for a kit. They probably have one in stock don't assume you have to order one over the internet or from a specialty house. Mine was less than 8 bucks (20 bucks with a hone). I believe the bore is 3/4".

If the outer boot is not bad, just get a generic wheel cylinder kit of the proper bore diameter. The seal is essentially the same. The bore will look like crap inside. I stuck the hone in there, poured a little brake fluid in to lube it up and and spun the hone in and out with my palms for about 3 to 5 seconds and the bore was fresh as can be. I may have left some minor details out but it is a simple fix.

Heck, I didn't even jack the car up!!! I did the whole sitting in the grass next to the car on our grassy driveway.

I believe that there are 2 different slave diameters - 3/4" and 13/16' (also know as early and late) I don't know where the change occurred yearwise.

Good point, I have a late 64 and it is a 3/4" cylinder. That seems to be the common break between early and late cars. Your suggestion sounds good. Mine is also a drum brake car and had the early style seats. All the brake and clutch cylinder parts are common Wagner items. I did the whole brake and clutch hydraulic system for less than 60 bucks including a hone. Shoes were 30 dollars for all 4 corners.

Phil, I may be in error on the slave cylinder material being iron though. It felt quite a lot heavier than a chunk of aluminum of that size. Even having sat for 18 years it had remarkably little corrosion. I may be just luckier than most.

Bottom line... these cars have a lot of rather pedestian parts that should not cost a lot to replace.

I'm car shopping right now, and have found a '93 850 (non-turbo). It's in pretty good shape, well taken care of by a private garage that specializes in Volvos, with a small dent and slight tear in the driver's side leather. Now, it's got 212k miles on the clock. New exhaust, good rubber... in general not in need of anything. I have a 90 mile round trip drive twice a week, and then shorter trips around town from time to time. I'm a grad student, and don't drive much more than that, but I'm looking for something reliable. Does this seem like a good choice? It's an automatic, which worries me, since sticks seem to last longer, but that's about it. He's asking $1950, which is within my price range... but I can't afford a bunch of $1000 repairs... although a $500 one a year would seem reasonable and affordable to me. Any thoughts? Thanks a ton!

stay away from 1993 this is the first year.. all kind of trouble with it.

run boy run............... 1994 and up... not 93

I must respectfully disagree. I have had a 1993 since new (now at 100k) and have had minimal issues...

While staying away from first year production usually is a good idea, not sure it holds true here. I would stay away from the new ford/volvos...

This is a nice, fun car to drive, but you WILL spent more than $500 per year on it. One trip to the repair shop is about that price and you will go several times each year. If you have limited resources right now, get a used Honda or Toyota and pick up a Volvo later when you make the big bucks.

You should check on the transmission service. I have a 93 850, and one of the more expensive problems with this car is the auto tranny. Most have to be replaced. I was able to stave off replacement until 160,000 miles by flushing it with every oil change. To replace it runs around $3000. Also, the rear main seal and a/c evaporator are expensive repairs, both of which my car needs now (at 165,000). That said, it's a great car to drive. Just be sure those things have been addressed, otherwise you will be forking out big bucks routinely.

Hi:

I have a 1993 850 GLT manual transmission, since new. I haven't had any of the typical problems (A/C, rear main seal) etc., but have always kept it maintained very well. However, ANY time she goes into the shop, with the exception of an oil change which is still $68.00 U.S., it costs anywhere from $3-$500.00 a pop (labor here in San Francisco is $90.00 per hour). If you have limited funds I would not suggest buying this car. On the other hand, it has high mileage which might indicate that any major problems have already been addressed (mine has 100k).
I love this car--it's fun to drive, safe and looks great but it can be costly.

Best of luck

--Christopher

All of a sudden I'm wondering about that fill up 1500 miles ago. And the subtle differences between Dot3 fluid and older style rubber seals on many old European cars. Maybe I always used Castrol LMA (Ellie Mae) fluid on my old Volvo's because of exposure to my Dad's old British cars - whose hydraulic systems would rapidly fail if fed 'regular' brake fluid. I don't know if the clutch system on your Volvo would have had the old style natural rubber Girling seals or not.
--
I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.

I don't think there's any compatibility problem between regular brake fluid and the seals, it's just that the clutch cyls are aluminum. They seem more susceptible to corrosion than the brake cyls. Flush with new fluid at least once a year, and they go a whole lot longer.

Phil;

I don't believe there is any materials compatibility issue either, but the fact remains that silicon fluid in these systems extend the service life of the components tremendously, so the fluid is clearly a factor. I believe part of the explanation is that silicon fluid has better lubricating properites.

As far as your suggestion about corrosion susceptibility of the aluminum housing...I don't know if I totally agree...I have always seen longitudinal scratching in the bores of fail slaves which used DOT3 or 4 fluids (to go along with some pitting... but not really enough to allow seal bypassing)...so I asked myself: What can cause this?...and since I NEVER dumped any grit into the system (and never even found any which might be responsible), I had to figure out the scoring mechanism...I finally decided and am convinced that it had to be the (hard) piston cocking in the bore, making contact with the wall, and being dragged along it during movement (and this would be consistant with the lubricating properites of the DOT3 and 4 fluids not being as good as those of silicon, and allowing this to occur).

To keep the piston from cocking in the bore, I now O'ring the "dry end" of the pistons...I have yet had a clutch slave fail after making this mod (along with going to silicon fluid)...and it must be going on ten years...without repeating the DOT3/4 vs. DOT5 discussions, I would bet that an o'ringed piston, in a DOT3 or 4 filed system, which had yearly fluid changes, would benefit also.

Cheers

My theory on the scratches is contamination from the exterioir. Grit gets past the boot when it grows old and gets trapped between the cylinder and the piston and SCKREETCH. Failure follows soon after.

p.s. NAPA has the odd-ball Wagner rear wheel cylinder for $32. Part # 19238.

Mike!

Found out Castrol LMA was much the same as "regular" Dot3 so I stopped using it on old LBC's with no ill effects.

It is a good idea to replace the flexible line to the slave cylinder too. It is made of the same material and just as old...

If you drive you car in traffic a lot then you probably have a considerable amount of time to get new parts. Replacing the whole slave cylinder is not very expensive and (nearly) guaranteed to be good, whereas your cylinder "could" be shot and unrebuildable.

You can drive the car with no clutch without destroying the tranny. Just remember to always park with a clear line to travel in front and (preferrably) pointing downhill. Learning to match engine speed with tranny speed is a skill we all should have ;)

Mike!

Thanks to everyone who replied. I now know what I have to look at and what the alternative re-builds are.

On the question of clutchless driving, I found the main difficulty was stopping the car while escaping stalling. Is the method just to use the brake and the gas pedal together so the revs keep you from stalling. Yesterday I was praising my guardian angel for each turn that I could do without having to stop.

Tom

Four methods:

Slow "stop": No cross traffic, stop sign only, put in first and slow as much as possible then continue.

Complete stop: put in neutral well before stop and come to complete stop. shut down engine. put in gear and restart when light is green.

Variation: put in neutral well before stop. approach stop and decide you can keep going (or light turns green). match revs and select appropriate gear.

panic stop: slam on brakes and turn engine off.

Obviously not a real pleasant way to drive!

Mike!

All of a sudden I'm wondering about that fill up 1500 miles ago. And the subtle differences between Dot3 fluid and older style rubber seals on many old European cars. Maybe I always used Castrol LMA (Ellie Mae) fluid on my old Volvo's because of exposure to my Dad's old British cars - whose hydraulic systems would rapidly fail if fed 'regular' brake fluid. I don't know if the clutch system on your Volvo would have had the old style natural rubber Girling seals or not.
--
I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.

You should fix it NOW, as it can fail completely if the rubber cup inside gets cocked or flips an edge in the bore. Then you'll either learn to drive without a clutch and mess up your trans or be stuck in traffic or have to pay for a tow home. Why wait and tempt fate? Voice of (bitter) experience talking.

Bad slave cylinder. Might just need a seal kit, if corroded or worn inside there might need a complete rebuilt unit. It will only continue to get worse, although if you keep a close eye on the fluid level you might be able to stretch it to a more convenient time for a fix (or until the parts get to you). If it goes too empty you'll need to bleed it to get proper operation again.
--
I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.