I just bought my '86 240 wagon (150k miles) in October and we have been so in love...until now. I took it to the shop for the first time for an oil change and a general inspection as I am about to leave on a 2000 mile road trip. Then, I get "the call." Per my mechanic, here is what she needs:

new outer tie rod ends
new front wheel ball joints
new rear axle bushings
front wheel alignment
new muffler system (current one has a serious rust problem)
oil leak at engine rear seal
reseal transmission gear box
*might as well replace the clutch plate as long as they are in there
oil leak around oil pan

What?! I have been driving around, thinking my car is just fine and now I am looking at around $3000 in repairs. So, my question is.....can I do any of this myself? I have some free time and I can follow instructions....how hard can it be? (I'll pause here for the hearty laugh that all you weekend mechanics are letting out) Obviously, I do not own a lift- does that mean I am pretty much out of luck? It kills me to go and spend $300 on an oil leak knowing that 30 cents of that is the part and $299.70 is labor.

somewhat happy holidays.....

-Signora Stella

If the clutch is working OK, let it go for a while. You can nurse a sick clutch for a long time. Lots of great suggestions below (mixed in with the War Stories). Clean the engine off and check for easy-to-fix oil leaks higher up on it that drip down and fool people. Check engine oil often...also the power steering reservoir and coolant. These checks take just seconds once the hood is up, and can avoid big problems. Oil pan leaking?...often just needs the pan bolts tightened. Manual trans is a pain to check fluid level, but it can be slightly overfilled and leaks there are usually very minor - ie: the level will stay safe a long time.

Suspension: if the steering is only loose to the point that you need to pay a bit more attention and feed little corrections in, consider delaying the ball jt/tie rod fix and live with it. If the car tries to change lanes when you hit a bump - time to fix. Brakes OK?

Rear susp. bushings are a frequent topic on this BB, given the age and mileage of the cars, but again, likely not a "right-now" fix. They are a matter for the serious home mechanic/masochist...or a pro. Leaky exhaust?...that's a right-now fix.

If the car body and interior are in good shape and you really think you'll have a long term relationship, it will pay off to buy quality parts and do repairs that will last. But $3000 at one shot sounds excessive. Get some unbiased advice about a good indie shop that knows Volvos and start prioritizing the to-do list (and your budget).
--
Bob (son's 81-244GL B21F, dtr's 83-244DL B23F, 'my' 94-944 B230FD; plus grocery-getter Dodge minivan, hobbycar 77 MGB, and numerous old motorcycles)

Outer tie rod ends are $30 a piece and dead easy to install as long
as you have a set of jackstands ($60 or so at most). Ball joints are
maybe $50 a piece and also cake to install. A front wheel alignment
shouldn't run you more than $75. Rear axle bushings are a b*tch to do
and will cost you about $1000 for all of them or $600 for just
the big ones that fail most often. A new exhaust system will cost
you $300 plus about $100 labor to install, if you don't want to do
it yourself. The rear main seal and clutch might cost you $500,
but make sure that the rear seal is actually leaking. The camshaft
cover gasket or the rubber plug at the rear of the engine might be
leaking, causing oil to run down the bellhousing and making it appear
that the rear main is leaking. A new cam cover gasket and rubber
plug will run you about $10 and will take less than an hour to
install, so check the gasket before doing anything else. Overall,
in the worst case, you're looking at $1500-$2000 and a maybe a bit
of work on your own, not $3000.

-b.

Stella,

I will tell you a couple stories. My ex-wife stalled her Honda Civic CVCC in an intersection near a garage. Before I left on my trip, I thoroughly went through her car (12 years before she was my ex), to include valve adjustment, tune-up, timing, oil and oil filter change, air filter change, new spark plugs, etc. I never wanted her to be stuck while I was away on my numerous trip(s). When I got back, she told me where the car was. I went there and they told me the head gasket was blown or some ridiculous nonsense. IN FRONT OF customers, I called him a liar and I want the car. He said the car would barely start or run. He took me out to the shop to prove it. I reached into the engine compartment and all the spark plugs were barely screwed in. I asked for a tool. He refused. I pushed it out the shop door. I screwed them in by hand. I started the engine. It purred, like a kitten. I went back into the office raised some more hell, after he demanded to be paid for his time, left and drove off.

At Crevier BMW, Orange County, CA, the #1 dealership, I brought my treasured 633CSi in for an extreme makeover, on more than one occasion, when I had more money than brains. I took it back no less than 6 times to have the Transmission Range Light repaired. One occasion I asked and paid for a Brand New BMW Battery, amongst other servicing. The bastards did not install it and didn't think I would notice. I raised hell with Robert Crevier, and got $700 or $800 refunded to me. I repaired the Transmission Range Light, myself, ten years ago.

My cars never see a dealership nor an independent. From that point on I bought shop manuals for every car or truck I have owned and did the work myself.

I am willing to bet the best and most trusted dealership or independent has done some unethical things along the way.

I have worked as a Mechanic for two independents in Australia and all I can say is "What bastards!" The things they would do to make an extra 5 cents off of their best customers. Fact.

I have owned two older Volvo 244DL, a 1977 and a 1981. Great cars and as reliable as the Sun rising in the East. They are easy to work on, require simple tools. Just keep the oil and filters clean. Check the Oil every time you go to get gas (petrol or benzine, if you prefer). I have replaced a few engines in cars whose owners neglected to check and top up the Oil.

How is your tire wear, when the tires are properly inflated, when cold? If there is no unusual wear, keep your money in your pocket, until you can afford to address the alignments and tie rod end issue. Although, alignment will improve fuel economy, as keeping your tires properly inflated.

Have your engine steam cleaned. Check for leaks, after that. How much Oil is consumed per 100 miles, one week, one month. Go from there.

Keep it simple. Read the owners manual. Be suspicious of dealerships and independent garages. They take advantage of girls, inept guys, old folks, and anyone who is not mechanically inclined.

Amusing mechanic stories, eh?

A couple weeks back my exish-girlfriend was in need of an oil change ('97 Dodge Intrepid POS). Half a year back of so the handle of her dipstick broke off and the remaining part of it was pushed down into the dipstck hole about an inch or so. She got a new dipstick a few weeks back and took it with her to the oil change place. (She has refused my numerous offers to change her oil for/with her, whatever.... exish.) Anyway, oil change folks said they couldn't change the oil cause she had no dipstick and therefore they couldn't check the oil level when they were done. She says here's a new dipstick, can you get the old one out and out the new one in? They say no, then they say it'd be about $50. It took ten minutes, a drill, and a screw at 11:00 at night, working by flashlight on the street, to extract the offending dipstick. $300 per hour please....

Here's an inspirational story for counterpoint: a friend drives a '93 Saab 9000. It had outer tie rod end issues, loose and clunky. He replaced them himself and then learned that it also had inner tie rod end issues. He was leaving on a trip and didn't have time to do them himself so he took the car to an indie shop (but not his regular mechanic). They did the work (he provided the parts) and they charged him $400!!! For about 1-1/2 hours work/ He was furious and refused to pay that much and was able to talk them down to $300. Still a huge ripoff but better than before. He took the trip, returned home, and a few days later was pulling into his driveway and the car jolts to a stop. "That's no good..." he exclaimed. He got out and walked around the car to find the front right wheel had basically fallen off the car! Broken ball joint. So not only had this shop ripped him off, but had failed to notice ball joints so badly worn that two weeks later one of them breaks. Bad bad indie! Bad!

Now on to the good part. The car sat on blocks for a couple weeks untill he got the parts and found the time to address the problem. He had a bitch of a time at first cause the fender was all bent and there was some fender/wheel interference. Once he got it all straightened out and the new ball joints installed, he was happy and satisfied. Untill he went to drive the car and one of the brakes was siezed up. Frozen brake calliper. Damn it. He was fed up woth working on the car so he took it to his regular mechanic (Jerry the Saab Guru at 26th St. and Pilsbury in So. Minneapolis). This guy does not advertize at all and he typically has a month long waiting list unless your car's ailment is vital to your or your car's saftey.

So my friend got his car over to Jerry's and explained his situation. He was chided, in good fun, for taking it somewhere else (Quality Coaches in So. Mpls.). My friend was tired or futzing with his car and just wanted Jerry to deal with his frozen brake calliper, but Jerry refused! Jerry told him that after all the work my friend had recently done on his car, that a brake calliper was a piece of cake. And he wouldn't take his money for doing such an easy job. He refused to do work. I have never heard of a mechanic refusing to do work because it was too simple of a job!

This guy Jerry works almost exclusivly on Saabs (he bought one once, many years ago, did his own work and....as they say the rest is history), a real diamond in the rough.

Anyway, good luck Stella. Beware and be cautious when dealing with mechanics, there are good ones out there but there are plenty of bad ones too.
--
Steve in Minneapolis - 1987 245DL 256k

I'll add a story about my favorite mechanic of all time. In the early 80s I owned a 1981 Mazda GLC Sport. I bought the car during my senior year of high school, with less than 11,000 miles on it. It developed an oil leak inside the distributor, a typical problem with those cars. Mazda knew there was a problem with them, but refused to fix them under program. Instead, they offered an "improved" distributor housing. You still had to pay to have the old distributor dismantled, then reassembled around the new housing. The part cost about $150.

My stepfather drove a Triumph TR-7, and had a great mechanic who kept it running flawlessly. He was a big guy who everybody called "Bear", and my stepdad called and asked him if he'd look at the GLC. I dropped it off, and told him not to get in a hurry, just see what he could do. 2 days later he called and told me to come pick it up. The cost of the repair was $25.

He'd dismantled the distributor, measured the o-ring on the shaft with a micrometer, driven to the dealership, and told the guy behind the parts counter that he knew the o-ring had to be in the catalogs somewhere, and he wasn't leaving till he found it. The guy gave him full access to the books, and sure enough, he found the o-ring, hiding in a section that had nothing to do with the distributor. He was happy as he could be at his discovery, because it gave him a piece of knowledge that even the dealership didn't have. He'd then be able to use it to fix more GLCs in the future.

Unfortunately, Bear got married and moved to West Texas, and I never saw him again. That was 20 years ago, and I haven't found a mechanic I trust since.
--
1991 245, 61k miles, looking for a 5 speed 92-93 245 cheap.

Regarding the likelihood of me being bullshitted....high. I am a 23 year old female, so I am sure that my "please, rip me off" sign was beaming bright when I walked in. I thought that I was going to a reputable shop (for those in the Chicago area, Hubbard Woods Motors)...they are an indie that has been in business for 43 years. And, to their credit, they may stil be a reputable shop. I also think that alot of shop owners are purists (understandably, they are in the business of fixing cars) in that they want to replace everything at the first sign of wear. That is why I came to you all. I wanted a second opinion on what I could let slide and what needs attention. I don't want to be lax about my car care, but I also don't need everything in showroom condition. For example, my wipers only operate at slow or fast...the intermitent speed does not work. The mechanic of course suggested I fix this, I said I don't need to. When it is drizzly, I just click them on and off every few minutes. I mean, my last car was a '76 Porsche 914 that honked everytime you turned left, had no heat and the driver's seat was propped in place with a brick. My 240 is a dream boat of modern convenience after that car. To make a long story short, I asked the mechanic to fax me a list of what he thought the car needed, paid him for the oil change and took her home.

So, what should my priorities be? I have no problem topping my car off with oil every now and then, so it seems like I can let oil leak go. Is there anything in particular that preventive maintanence will be cheaper than just waiting until it goes? Can I keep my rusty muffler until it falls off, or will waiting that long cause other major damage?

Thanks for all your help.....this is my first Volvo, so I have lots to learn :)

-Signora Stella

When I lived in the Chicagoland area (and before I started doing my own maintenance), I took my car to "Independant Auto Craft".. Its been a few years but I thought they were in Crystal Lake. They were a good shop.

Since then I have moved to Madison, WI and have come across Phoenix Foreign Car Service. These guys are the most knowledgable and honest mechs I have met. They are so good its almost worth the 2+ hour drive it would take you to get there... Unfortunatly for them I dont get over there too often as with the help of this board I now do all my own work.

Good luck, there has been lots of good advice given in all the responses to your original message.

matt

Well good for you. It bears mentioning (no one has) that for 3 grand you could get two nice running bricks (or six not so nice ones)! You could get a superb suspension upgrade and paint job.

The most difficult part of not getting hosed is realizing you need other perspectives, and for a young person you have got that happening.

--
Stef -- 1981 wagon B21A SU M46 318000km

If your exhaust system is actually leaking, replace it first. If you have a friend or 2 who are even remotely handy with a wrench, it's an easy DIY job. As mentioned, FCP Groton sells a complete system for $108.99 shipped.

As for the rest, there's nothing that would make me lose sleep, unless the rear main engine seal leak or the transmission leaks are severe.
--
1991 245, 61k miles, looking for a 5 speed 92-93 245 cheap.

A lot of those things aren't necessary right away.
Are you, by any chance, a woman who give an impression that you don't know anything about cars? These 'mechanics' (or con artists) might be taking advantage of you and you may not even have any problems.

Excuse me for asking, but it sounded like this is your first Volvo. How did you select this mechanic or this shop? Randomly? Because they're conveniently located? Maybe they aren't the best choice. Contrary to some comments here on the list, both some dealers and also some independent shops (a.k.a., "indies") might be apt to rip you off. And other dealers and indies can be trustworthy.

My advice is to wait on the repairs if you can. Then go to a local shopping center and see you if you can approach someone (better: a few different people) going to their old Volvo (you're bound to see a few). Stop and ask them if they know of a trustworthy Volvo shop. Get a few different peoples' recommendations -- you may learn something useful. Don't laugh, it works. When I first moved here, I was unhappy with the closest Volvo dealer that I initially used, so I did exactly what I just described. I discovered a really great indie, and I've been using him for about 20 years now!

Good luck.

This reminds me of an 85 Buick Century wagon my mother owned about 12 years ago. It had a very small coolant leak, small enough that I couldn't find it, but the reservoir needed topping about once a month. She took it to a shop for an estimate, and came home in tears. They'd put the car up on a lift, and walked away from it for 2 hours. She watched the car the entire time. When she finally asked the shop manager about it, he said that 2 of his techs had been looking at it the entire time. When she called his bluff, the manager walked out to the car, turned around, came back inside, and told her it needed a new water pump. He told her the pump was a dealer-only item, at more than $300, and that the entire engine would have to be pulled to install it, at a labor cost of over $500. He expected her to pay well over $800 for a water pump in a $1500 car.

I told her to stop crying, that I'd fix it, and called AutoZone. The most expensive water pump they listed was brand-new (not rebuilt) at $35. I went out to the Buick, pulled the belt, pulled the bolts, and the pump, and hit the road. I had to drive all the way across town (Durham, NC), picked up the new pump and a bottle of gasket shellac, drove back home, and installed the new pump. Total time, start to finish, including the drive, was just over 2 hours.

I cornered the shop manager about it the next day. He stood by his quote. I told him about the AutoZone pump, and he said they only use "factory parts". This was an indy shop, and they had Advance boxes all over the place. When I asked about pulling the engine, he said that was the only way to do the job, that the bolts wouldn't clear the strut tower otherwise. I informed him that it came out just fine by leaving the bolts in the holes in the water pump till the pump was removed, and he said "well, that'll work, but I wouldn't do it that way".

Some guys think they have to make the whole mortgage payment off one customer all at once. I hate that sort of crap.
--
1991 245, 61k miles, looking for a 5 speed 92-93 245 cheap.

These people are shameless. They see you as a walking checkbook; it doesn't matter if the "mechanic" is at a stealership or is indy... don't get screwed on this stuff. If the car is fine to you, it's fine. Why? Read on.

I have had my brick since August. I had it "serviced" on Vancouver Island before I left to drive it across the continent to Southern Ontario (4400 km).

This indy guy missed a poorly charging alternator and blocked pcv system, which I fixed myself (alt $20, pcv $50 for new oil trap box) when I got back home. I got back home in 3 1/2 days, driving 16 hours straight through each day on I90 at speeds up to 140km/hour. I had to add oil at times from the pcv blockage, but so what?

PCV problems are not killers on these cars; you'd know if they were - no one would buy them, because it is common. Oil leaks are totally normal on such a car, and aren't a big problem either. Have confidence. Fix it in your own time, the right way, and learn as you go. Otherwise, why own a 240?

There is only one adjustment a front end alignment can do on a 240, and unless you have real front end problems, forget it, you don't need it.

Reseal the gear box? Why? Replace the clutch? In what universe? Doesn't it work? The m46 is pretty robust. It is specified to tow 3300 pounds. Does that sound okay?

Run, don't walk away from these guys. Give me a break. These kinds of mechanic laundry lists are easy to draw up on a slow day, but come on. Half the time they charge you and don't even do the job.

Your car is fine, it's just a little used, and in need of gradual tlc.



--
Stef -- 1981 wagon B21A SU M46 318000km

Curious to know who the mechanic was.
--
Norm Cook Vancouver BC; 1989 745T 202,000KM

"PCV problems are not killers on these cars"

Now wait a minute! I don't know about the PCV system on carburator (sp?) cars, but on the FI cars, a plugged flame trap can blow out a main seal, leading to major oil loss and major repair bill. As they say, don't ask how I know (I just wish I'd found this board first). It's a relatively easy maintenance task, but very important. Don't overlook it or minimize its importance!
--
'81 GLT 245 W/245K; '83 DL 175K

Stella,
You have a good car, don't let a dealer take you to the cleaners. They tried to do the same thing with my old 88 245. None of those parts have been replaced after 65,000 miles.

[new outer tie rod ends
new front wheel ball joints
new rear axle bushings]
If there is no noise, then don't bother to replace them yet.

[front wheel alignment]
If the tires show wear on the outsides or the car pulls to one side, wait.

[new muffler system (current one has a serious rust problem)]
If there are no holes, don't bother. ALL exhaust systems are rusty, they are built out of thick steel.

[oil leak at engine rear seal]
Is there a puddle of oil under the car? Do you lose more than a quart of oil between oil changes(on the ground)? Then dont bother. It could be a tranny seal($100 to fix, non-dealer)

[reseal transmission gear box
*might as well replace the clutch plate as long as they are in there]
Is there LOTS of fluid leaking? Let an indie fix it, and don't touch the clutch until it is completely worn out.

[oil leak around oil pan]
?????
Clean your PCV and you should be able to go on your road trip. Hows the fuel filter, BTW?

Klaus
--
98 V70Rawd(101Kmi), 95 854T(85K mi), 88 245(165K mi)

"[front wheel alignment]
If the tires show wear on the outsides or the car pulls to one side, wait."

I think he means

Unlesss the tires show wear on the outsides or the car pulls to one side, wait.
--
1989 Volvo 244 DL 218k Miles, the proper color brick red.

The rear seal may not even be a problem. Check your flame trap,/ oil seperator setp and make sure it's clear It's the cause of many oil seal leaks, http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-900/EngineSealsBeltsVent.htm#Crankcase_Ventilation_%20A_Treatise
after cleaning those, you can run a treatment of auto rx ( www.auto-rx.com ) and very likely take care of any minor seal problem on an engine that young without tearing anything apart.

Jack the front end up and shake the wheels up and down, if there's no noticable play I wouldn't worry about the rod ends and ball joints, if they are bad, it's an easy fix on these things.

If the exhaust is leaking you can buy a complete kit from www.fcpgroton.com for about$110 and it's easy to do yourself, not a bad Idea to replace the cat while doing it for about another $130 ( It also makes the exhaust swap even easier to replace the whole works ) http://www.fcpgroton.com/volvo240exhaust.htm

If it's not leaking , don't worry about it, and if it's just one litle hole you may be able to put some exhaust sealer on it to hold you for awhile
buy a good repair manual, Bently or haynes, Do some searches in the little box at the bottom of this page on each subject and get an education, it will go along way.
I don't have a lift, I work on the ground and I'm about half crippled and these things are still a joy to work on.
--
-------Robert, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '82 Mercedes 300SD

If you have movement up and down it is the ball joint.
Side to side is you tie rods.
But as Robert said if there's no noticable play don't worry about.
--
90 744ti, Airbox, K/N, Cold air, G-Valve, Dual boost control, VDO, Modified exhaust. 88 745 gle.

Hello,

15 each easy to change

15 each easy to change

Does your car go clunk or look lopsided? If not, those can wait.

50 bucks

Is it leaking? If not, who cares if it looks rusted.

Overkill, the damage is already likely done and most original clutches are good for 200k so worry about it when the clutch is toast.

Huh? which seal is leaking?

Apart from the alignment, all of this are cheap and easy fixes done in your driveway with a few common tools and a little elbow grease. The bushings are a bit of a PITA, you'll need a bushing tool to do that one.

Nice guy charging 3000 for all that. There's maybe 500 bucks in parts there.

--
Happy Bricking!!! - Richard - '87 245 DL , '82 242 GLT - Volvo's are alive and well in Brampton!!!

Dear Signora Stella,

Not everybody on this board is a mechanic. Certainly not me. But I love my '84 Volvo GL every bit as much as you love your Volvo and I would be sorry to see your love affair come to an end.

It would seem to me that you really need to find a new mechanic. Most of us who are only good at writing checks here have learned (the hard way) that a so-called "Independent Volvo mechanic" is the only way to go.

To be perfectly honest, your "list" is really not that big. Furthermore, considering the age of your car, you should consider yourself lucky that you don't have to 1) replace the heater motor 2) replace the rack and 3) replace the clutch. Not to mention the air conditioning.

$3K seems a bit steep and my guess would be that you brought you car to a dealership and they "saw you coming" (as they say in Chicago). Sounds to me like they are going to take you to the cleaners.

So my advise is thank them for the useful information and find another mechanic.

Cordially,

Amtrak
(visit my web page at www.freewebs.com/chucksville and sign my guestbook!)

p.s. Be sure to thank the Volvo Angels for being so kind to you. On the whole, you're Volvo woes don't really amount to much.