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My 1990 245 was running GREAT for several weeks after replacing the intake manifold gasket and fixing a vacumn leak. Then the other day, I was driving it to the car wash. It started missing a bit. This also happened a week or two prior, but went away after a few minutes.
I didn't think much of the miss, and pulled into the car wash. Santa got me some free car wash tickets, but it was to one of those drive through places (I prefer to wash it myself, really). Anyhow, by the time I got out, the car would barely run. Very much loss of power, I could hardly accelerate. I wonder if the car wash had anything to do with it??? It did start to miss before going in. I left the engine running as instructed and put it in 'N' while being pulled through the machine.
I thought I was maybe in limp home mode somehow. I was able to drive it home, only about 1 mile, so I did. Sure hope the timing belt didn't jump! Shouldn't have gotten wet though, even in the car wash, spash guard is in place, etc... 230 is interference engine. Cranks fine though, with coil wire off, nice and smooth crank, so I think engine is OK. Need, i think, to check AMM. It is original. From description of this thing, I don't see how they last more than a year or so at those temps. Hot air pre heat hose is off air box, so if AMM was out I don't think it was a faulty air box thermostadt.
I let it dry out a couple of days, no luck. Will start, but it very rough, violent shaking, etc... I sprayed wd-40 inside dist cap. Car has had weird pattern in cap since it was rebuilt a year ago. Horizontal lines burned inside the cap, arching always counterclockwise back to the side of the terminals, not buring ON the terminals, but arching to SIDE of terminals. But that was going on even when it ran GREAT.
I'l really stumped. I thought it was probably water in dist cap, until I cleaned it out really good. I guess it might be the AMM. I don't think it was the car wash. Air filter was dry, I wonder if it somehow could have gotten water in the FUEL??? Could plugged Cat. Converter cause this?
I also cleaned the plug wires. I'll get a cap and rotor, but doubt it'll fix it.
Diagnostic socket reads 2-1-4 (RPM sensor) but functional test (press 2x for 1 sec) shows throttle position sensor and RMP sensor to be OK. (return codes 3-3-4 and 1-4-1, respectively) I replxed the speed (RPM) sensor in 1997 based almost only on the diagnostic code and it fixed the car, but that time I didn't know how to do functional test and then it would not start at all. Could RMP sensor really be at fault (like computer indicates) even though when asked to test it, is tests OK. Or does this just test that it's being actuated, etc... (not necessarily functioning properly).
Can't drive the car at all at this point. I hope I didn't damage it by driving it home, it was coughing and shaking quite a bit (guess that WASN'T 'limp home mode'? It was new years eve, didn't want to leave it out or try to call a tow.
Could something have been knocked off underneath (need to check 02 sensor wire, I guess).
Thanks for reading. Any ideas?
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The miss, right before the car wash, was at idle, after waiting in line for 1/2 minute or so (as before, when I noticed the miss, it was at idle when car was warm.)
Arcing inside cap is to right side of terminals, looking from underneath cap (only way you can see them) I can post a picture if you think it'd help. Cap and rotor are kinda cheap, from the looks of it, terminals are very small, etc... Will post a picture of cap if that would help. I have two of them burned this way.
Could be flame trap or plug fouling somehow???
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The distributor may not be angled correctly, or the timing mark for that sprocket is off. That's the intermediate shaft that drives both the distributor and the oil pump.
The distributor position does not affect timing on this car, but it can be cranked around so that it's not lining up right with the cap. Therefore it might be firing with the rotor just right at the edge of the contacts.
I think you WILL see a big difference when you replace the cap and rotor. I've had cars that were almost immovable due to ignition breakdown and new dist caps fixed them. Get the real deal too, a Bosch orange cap, not some cheap Autozone made-in-China copy.
--
Rob Bareiss, New London CT ::: '87 244DL/M47- 234K, '82 245T/M46-182K, '84 242DL/AW70-100K, '89 244DL/AW70- 212K and I miss my: 86 244DL 215K, 87 244DL 239K, 88 744GLE 233K, 88 244GL 147K, 91 244 183K
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Hey Aye Roll was dead on right. TOTALLY fixed the misfiring, etc... Thank you.
I almost got another cheap cap just to see if it made a difference, then FOUND the BOSCH locally. It can be hard, so many of the American parts places have just got the cheapest parts possible. Many other brands, but they tend to all look the same.
There ought to be something in the FAQ about this. (Is there? Where is the 200 faq, anyhow? I could only find the 700/900) The BOSCH cap (I had had them years ago, so I should have known better) is completely different. All the other parts have the cap terminals (the ones going to plugs) moulded INTO a big hunk of plastic. The bosch cap has a terminal coming down from the 'roof' of the cap, isolated from the wall of the cap (where mine was arching). The rotors are about 1/2 the thickness of the Bosch, too. Will be interesting to see if this one starts pitting in a few weeks.
So, I guess the cap or rotor (probably the cap as it was pitted!) was giving out when it started missing, and then the car wash just made it all too easy for the spark to get out of the cap or thru the rotor to the dist shaft, etc...
I think even the Bosch cap is not going to fix it long time though, I think the distributor is 'off'. I had the engine rebuilt a year ago. Long story, but I can't take it back there. Car is runnig GREAT again! But, if it continues to destroy caps, how can I re-angle the distributor correctly? Do I just follow procedure for setting ignition timing? I don't think that involves removing the distributor. Would like to avoid removing all the fan belts and timing cover, but I guess I can manage if I have to. Am a software engineer and administrator, not a 'real' mechanic. :-)
Thanks again!
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I agree you will need to set the distributor or check the alignment mark on the intermediate shaft under the timing cover. I was eager to see the photo you suggested because your description was perfect to imagine the plugs were firing through an excessive arc between rotor and cap contacts.
Someone should be able to describe the small engraved line in the dist housing which is supposed to correspond to #1 firing position. I'm not sure if the rotor needs to align directly there (I think), or 6 degrees clockwise to make up for the 12 crank-degrees idle advance when the vibration damper indicates TDC. I suppose I could look to see how the mark corresponds to the cap terminal for #1. My wild guess would have it a compromise putting it in the midpoint of all expected ignition timing variation.
The error could have been made at the distributor or the timing belt, but I suspect the timing belt, because the tolerance for a good spark must be great enough to handle 25-30 crank-degrees of advance under load. No way for you to set spark timing on this car; it gets that from the RPM sensor and the spark computer. If it was a mismatch at the I-shaft gear, the range of adjustment under the distributor may not provide enough. In that case, you could pull the distributor and reinsert it at the appropriate tooth position to get it back in range.
If you don't fix it, I think it will eat caps and rotors.
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we need to do a 200 FAQ, although I think it is the most active forum area
so you get a constant stream of Qs that are FAed.
--
Stef -- 1981 wagon B21A SU M46 317000km
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I would replace the spark plug wires. I think they're wet.
--
'73 142, '75 242, '75 245, '80 245, '86 244, '87 745T
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That's what I thought, but I removed each one carefully, one at a time, and cleaned off with WD-40 to displace water, no luck. They are less than a year old, NAPA brand, in good shape-- Not exactly OEM though. Could the water soak into the wires and cause a problem?
Thanks.
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