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Volvoists !
I am perplexed and becoming increasingly discouraged over my '87 B230FT.
After some moderate wrenching (exhaust gaskets, all new studs and copper nuts, new turbo oil return tube with a new seal and flange gaskets, water pump, LF & FR Rotors, inner & wheel bearings, outer seals, caliper pins, boots, pads, windshield washer jets, douched out the turbo, checked for play in the turbo shaft (etc), oil filter, oil, air filter, new engine coolant and a coolant temp sensor). I started the car up two days ago it started fine after all of the wrenching and I left out in the unheated garage since Wednesday night. I went back today (Friday) and cranked over the Brick and it wouldn't fire up !! WTF ??? Huh ? It has been about 15 below for the last two days/nights, this is the only change in anything environmentally or mechanically since the car started up fine 2 days ago, at least that I am aware of.
It cranked over fine, has fuel pressure at the rail, plugs are wet (not soaked) with fuel, mechanical timing is dead nuts at TDC, plugs have a white spark when cranking, throttle body throat pulls vacuum when cranking. What the heck ?
Any suggestions ? I read thru some of the FAQ's for No Start - nothing really makes sense to me yet. Any suggesttions would be greatly appreciated. I want to get at least 300K out of this car before I ditch it. I am on 195K right now. Please help ?
I have replaced the coolant temp sensor with a new one, it still won't fire.
The car started last Wednesday before this cold spell hit, so I doubt the "lack of oil in the cylinders" would be a useful assertion in this case.
I am about ready to put it on the hook - even though I don't want to, I want to fix it myself with the help of our semi concious moderately and frequently intoxicated moderately stoned US Postal worker drummer. It's like having a greeter at Wal Mart for a techniical assistant.
Also, I found a broken wire on one of the resistors in the ballast resistor network located just behind and above of the battery on the driver's side inside fender wall. I'll replace this but, I seriously doubt it woul stop the Volvo from firing up, I put it on order this morning thru the Volvo dealer in Hanover, NH.
A few posts came back a few days ago and I tried the suggestions of (1) replacing the coolnat temp sensor, still no start and (2) disconnecting the AMM to see if the car would start in limp home mode. It did not start under either of these conditions. Yesterday, I alos heated up the coolant temp sensor with a heat gun (heated the sensor, not melted it) before I out it in the engine block to amke sure I wasn't flooding the plaugs with an extreme cold start situation, it still won't start.
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Rich George
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Hi George,
A lot of feedback so far but nothing on your 'ballast' wires.
I believe that this connection point is the ignition signal amplifier which works in conjunction with the 'hall sensor' (distributor base) to determine if the thing is running and sparking.
Bad or random signals might make for strange results.
Hang in there!
Greg
86 744 450(ish) KM's (bad speedo for a few years, no suprise ;>)
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I ordered a new set of ballasts from the local Volvo dealer. They should be in today sometime. The car did at least run for 3 seconds yesterday, there is a single broken conductor to one of the ballast resistors. That's why I am replacing the (I think there are 4) - they bundle is corroded and even it were not adversely effecting engine start/run the fact that the bundle is corroded caught my eye - I think it is prudent to replace them regardless.
I am going to keep plugging away on this until it runs like it is supposed to. I also have a turbo performance issue that I need to resolve once I get this thing running again. I have replaced all of the manifold gaskets, the studs, the nuts and inspected/clenaed the turbo out on the bench. Everything is good. I have the section of the "Volvo" tech manual for the turbo specs. It looks good, I am going to have to hunt for an obscure vacuum leak somewhere. I have had almost all of the ducting/plumbing out of the engine bvut not 100%, there are still a few places under the intake manifold I haven't got at yet.
Mine name is Rich - my last name is George. Thanks for your input and support. I'll report my findings after I work on it later today. Thanks again.
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Rich George
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I ordered a new set of ballasts from the local Volvo dealer. They should be in today sometime. The car did at least run for 3 seconds yesterday, there is a single broken conductor to one of the ballast resistors. That's why I am replacing the (I think there are 4) - they bundle is corroded and even it were not adversely effecting engine start/run the fact that the bundle is corroded caught my eye - I think it is prudent to replace them regardless.
I am going to keep plugging away on this until it runs like it is supposed to. I also have a turbo performance issue that I need to resolve once I get this thing running again. I have replaced all of the manifold gaskets, the studs, the nuts and inspected/clenaed the turbo out on the bench. Everything is good. I have the section of the "Volvo" tech manual for the turbo specs. It looks good, I am going to have to hunt for an obscure vacuum leak somewhere. I have had almost all of the ducting/plumbing out of the engine bvut not 100%, there are still a few places under the intake manifold I haven't got at yet.
Mine name is Rich - my last name is George. Thanks for your input and support. I'll report my findings after I work on it later today. Thanks again.
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Rich George
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I'm having the identical problem with the 88 760 that I am refurbishing. I am almost certain that it is electrical now since it cleared up for two days then the hard starting when cold started again. If you have fuel and fire on every car but a Volvo it should run. I am just guessing that it may have something to do with a computer not providing compensation for the low compression of the B230FT during a cold start. Has anyone experienced this with an N/A model? Whatever it is seems to be a relatively comon problem. I'm going this afternoon and buy a block heater to put in the radiator hose. If this fixes it, I'll let you know.
Regards,
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I am somewhat pleased and also dismayed to hear that someone else on this planet is having a similar issue with their Volvo.
I agree about the fuel, air & electricity rule being applicable to most vehicles except Volvos. It's making me nuts. If there is anyone out there who can help us, please do before I plant a 3 pound brick of C4 under the front end of my 740 and send it to Volvo heaven.
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Rich George
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It would only take 1 1/2 pounds, send me the rest!
Mine started right up this morning while I was trying to demonstrate that it wouldn't start. It did sound like a lean condition was happening until it warmed up a bit. We are not the only ones with this problem. It apparently is inherent in the 740/760 turbo models. (Anyone with a non-turbo acting this way, please speak up!)
Have you tried advancing the timing about ten degrees and then cranking it? They will run at twenty or so advanced and it would confirm a computer problem if it does fire.
Regards,
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LOL!! I haven't tried the advanced timing application yet. I did call the guys I know of over in Concord, NH and they seem to think the motor is really flooded badly. The brick is over at our drummer's house and he is pulling the plugs and is going to hit the plugs with a heat gun, hopefully he won't apply a ten thousand degree heat source to the plugs but, he is a drummer and anything is possible with those people. I think at this point I would be willing to share any pyrotechnics with a fellow sufferer. I'll post back up here what Phil "fu***ng" Collins finds when he dries off the plugs. I am going to talk to him at 3:00 pm EST. I am glad your car started, I wish the hell mine would, this is pissing me off.
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Rich George
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posted by
someone claiming to be frankford
on
Mon Jan 24 02:57 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
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you will get alot of crazy answers so I will start with what are the easy checks. Check both fuel supression relay and fuel pump relay. If they have been cracked open and resoldered then mosture can creep in and reep havick. Been there done that. Other than that and the temp changing I couldn't tell you. Good luck and let us know for future references.
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Frank,
The F1 relay was replaced earlier this past summer when I was on an Easter egg hunt for fuel related intermittent start issues. I'll look for the fuel suppression relay on the FAQ page. I don't know where it is located off of the top of my head. I'll look it up. Do you think there would be a benefit to using a hair dryer to blow hot air over the relay panel to evaporate any potential moisture in the relay panel ? This is starting to piss me off a bit, I want to find the probelm and fix it myself, I really like the car alot and I like working on it.
Thanks in Advance,
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Rich George
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There is no "fuel suppression" relay. The RS relay controls voltage to the injectors.
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Yes, I undestand, I read up on the FAQs about the role of the RS relay. Apparently mine is mounted under the hood on the driver's side somewhere near the power steering resevoir near the driver's side shock tower. I can replace it, can I "test" it to see if it is sowrking correctly ? I mean, I have plenty of fuel at the plugs.
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Rich George
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I can replace it, can I "test" it to see if it is sowrking correctly ? I mean, I have plenty of fuel at the plugs.
I understand it's interchangeable with the fan relay, if you have one. But with plenty of fuel at the plugs, I guess it's working.
Sorry I can't help, but with a white spark, fuel at the plugs, and compression (?) at the right time( ?), I'm stumped too.
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
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Bruce,
Turns out it has been very badly flooded a result of a combination of subzero temps, an oil change, not letting the car run until the motor warmed up and repeated attempts to start the car while it was out in the garage. Pullled the plugs, blew them off, used a heat gun on them to dry them out, warmed up to about 10 DEGREES today, the car then started and ran for about 3 seconds or so.
This is a massive improvement and indicates to me there is in fact way too much fuel in the cylinders and possibly even in the oil. The plugs are out and in the house near the woodstove and are staying out overnight. I want as much fuel in the cylinders to evaporate overnight by leaving the plugs out. I'll try again in mid morning and then I'll post the results. This has been a PITA and I hope someone else can learn from this. It seems simple but, I guess clearly overlooked as a source of the problem. I'll report tomorrow what I find. Thanks for the input.
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Rich George
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Rich,
I don't see any mention of the Fuel Pressure Regulator. I hear they can suck in massive amounts of fuel thru the vacuum line if the diaphragm opens up. Have you checked the vac hose for signs of fuel?
The FAQ probably has more info on this.
You changed the PITA "coolant temp sensor" below the #4 intake runner, right? (Leaving no stone unturned.)
Also, you can clear the cylinders pretty fast by pulling off Coil Primary #1 (no spark will also kill fuel system) and crank a few seconds with throttle wide open—assuming the battery is holding up thru all this.
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Bruce Young
'93 940-NA (current) — 240s (one V8) — 140s — 122s — since '63.
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Hi Bruce,
Yes, in fact replaced the vacuum line to the front of the FPR from the TB and connected both ends using brand new clamps. Just like new. No leaks, no cracks.
Also replaced the Coolant Temp Sensor as well with a brand new one.
I didn't crank the motor with the coil wire off of the coil, nor did I crank the motor with the plugs out (yet).. The battery is in good shape and we have it on a trickle charger out in the garage overnight.
I will not relent until I get this thing running 100% correctly. I have been all over the FAQs like white on rice looking for tips and answers, alot make sense. When this car runs right it is a runner and I want it back the way it used to be !
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Rich George
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Success ! I replaced the ballast resistors with new ones from Volvo - not that this had anything to do with not starting but, it was one of the items I replaced today.
The first thing I did was to pull the dipstick and take a whiff of the end and I'll be damned if it didn't reek of gas. And I mean, it REEKED !
I pulled the coil wire from the bottom of the distributor cap and cranked the engine over repeatedly with the plugs out to clear out the fuel in the cylinders.
I drained the oil.......
Fought off the postal worker drummer's repeated attempts to get me to pull the distributor cap. (There is a valid reason why he is both a Postal Employee AND a drummer). :-)
Refilled the beast with fresh oil (the oil I drained was less than one week old but, was saturated with fuel)..Slapped the plugs back in. Checked all the wires, they are fine.
I'll be damned if the Volvo didn't start up (after moderate cranking) and run better than it has in a long time. Took it for a test drive.
No exhaust leaks (original repair was new exh. gaskets and all new studs), no coolant leaks (installed new water pump when I did the exhaust gaskets last week), no oil leaks from either the oil return tube or the flange where it mounts to the base of the turbo. The wheels didn't fall off (new rotors, wheel bearings and outer seals) and the brakes didn't fail either.
I really have to thank all of you guys for firing all of these excellent suggestions at me during this learning experience. Now, if the mercury stays above zero for more than a couple of hours.......I might be able to go otuside to take a leak sometime !
Somebody slap me on the back huh ? I'll be in touch and thanks you guys for all of the help you have given me. I'll have to put the C4 away for use on another day !
Best Regards and Thanks Again.
If any of you get to New Hampshire's Upper Valley, PLEASE turn around and go south, you'll freeze your 'nads off in no time flat up here.
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Rich George
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