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I have a 90' 740 16v, that is still running well, but it is challenged cosmetically, and is up to major maintenance.
For these and other reasons that are not very clear (may well be a mid-life crisis, noticed in the many related messages in this list archives) I am looking now at the late 960/S90.
I have read the archives - as expected this subject has been discussed before few times, but I have some questions, I didn't see answered, so I would appreciate your patience and inputs.
I just drove a 97' S90 at a used-car delaer. I t has 81 KMiles and is offered at 7,999. Cosmetically looks good, except torn apart leather on the driver seat, and problem with the moonroof, that doesn't close well, and doesn't want to slide back - only tilts. These two items the dealer will fix for the buyer.
How common are these problems at this mileage/age?
There is no service records for the car.
Carfax mentions service at 65,000, but gives no details where and was was done. What items should I count on replacing/maintain if I go for this car? I figure the timing belt, what about water pump?
Car is from PA, I am in NJ - is there a way to find out its service history, and mainly whether the t-belt was done at 65,000?
Is OBD-II a big help? I never used it before, how user-friendly is it, and which OBDII tool would you recommend?
It was a hot day here today (around 85), When I turn AC button on - it blows cold, but setting Temperature to 72, doesn't seem to engage the AC - is it normal for the ACC?
And my most worry: when leaving the dealer I had to make a quick left from the light. I pushed the gas, as I am used to do in my 740, and the rear end lost traction.
Tires look fairly new, and the road wasn't wet. Does this happen often on this cars when pushed too strong, or is it an indication of a suspension problem ?
The engine seems to run well, dudn't try transmission shifting in E was very smooth, dudn't have a chance to try S mode.
Thanks,
Mihcael
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You dont say what type of dealer is offering the car. If it is a new car dealer with a decent service dept. then they should be pretty competent in doing the work. If it is one of these used car only lots, I don't know that I would want them doing the work.
8 grand for a 97 seems a bit high to me. It is a baby with only 81k but you have no service history on it. Timing belt is #1 item to do, then go through the car to find what else is wrong. Is there a good volvo indy mechanic that you could take the car to? Most reputable dealers would allow for this. I have heard that some of these cars have problems with the sun roof, not the easiest repair from what I have read. Seat repair should be doable by a good upholstery shop.
If you can get an idependent appraisal of the car and the dealer will come down off Mt. Olympus and deal with a realistic price (between 6-7) then I would go for it. If not, keep looking.
--
97 S90 with 184K miles still going strong
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This is a used car dealer. He doesn't have any facilities to do mechanical work of his own.
He is too far from my home, and from my trusted indy, so I will pass on this one,
unless he decides to change his mund and drop another 1K off the price. In which case I'd take it and let my mechanic go over it and fix.
Thanks for all the advice guys,
I'll keep looking.
-Michael
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At this point, both you and the dealer have to assume the timing belt was NOT changed since there is no definative proof either way. So proceed with negotiations accordingly. Do you trust the dealer? If yes, then negotiate a new timing belt into the price. The reason I ask about trust is that if he is not reputable, then he might just SAY he changed it even if he didn't. And the consequences of that could be catostrophic.
Don't get me wrong... it's no big deal. Just budget a couple hundred dollars into the price. It sounds like it could be a good deal on a good car.
Jeff Pierce
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'93 945 Turbo ( one kickass family car ! ) 197K miles, '92 Mercedes 190E (my daily driver) 170K miles, '85 Jeep CJ-7 w/ Fisher plow 225K miles, ’95 Lawn Chief
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The dealer admits that he did not do and is not going to do any mechanical work on this car. He mumbled something about that 70K is "recommended" and he saw a lot of cars driving past that... Jibberish.
I thought I'd get him down on price on this argument, but it did not seem to work...
Is changing T-belt on S90 really only $200, or is it just parts?
I paid few hundreds more for it to be done twice on my B234F - it also involves replacing seals, and the rest of the belts.
I am not going to do it myself this time - no experience, no manuals, never done it before, and if I buy it, it's going to replace my daily driver, not much room for eror here.
Does it require any special tools?
-Michael
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Quote: "Is changing T-belt on S90 really only $200, or is it just parts?
I paid few hundreds more for it to be done twice on my B234F - it also involves replacing seals, and the rest of the belts."
Assuming you replace the timing belt, seals, tensioner/idler pullies, and all three drive belts, then $500 seems about right for a B234 if Volvo original parts are used and work is done by a qualified tech. (perhaps a little high, but if it's done by a tech you really trust, then it's worth it)
I believe the seals and pullies are "every-other-belt-change" items. So your cost should sometimes be a little lower for parts -- but there wouldn't be much labor savings by omitting those items.
If you do it yourself, you save double:
1) You can buy parts at FCP Groton for half the cost of the same parts at the dealer.
2) Your labor is cheap (read: FREE).
If the dealer isn't willing to deal, then this sounds like it may not be such a great bargain. As you described it, the car is merely in fair condition (not excellent). There are probably better specimens out there for a comparable price -- that ARE current in their maintenance schedule.
Remember, these cars were rediculously expensive when new, so most people didn't buy them to beat the hell out of them -- they pampered them. In my humble opinion, you should hold out for one that was pampered.
Jeff Pierce
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'93 945 Turbo ( one kickass family car ! ) 190K miles, '92 Mercedes 190E (my daily driver) 165K miles, '93 945T (sold), '53 Willys-Overland Pickup (my snow-plow truck/conversation piece -- sold to a loving home), '85 Jeep CJ-7 w/ Fisher plow
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Right away this dealer is very suspicous to me. He obviously is either trying to dodge an underlying issue or really sells Fiats. As you know, changing the belt on interval is very important. That is not to say you can't get away without changing exactly on interval, but how foolish does he think you are?
One way to get to an answer is to ask him if he were selling it to his younger sister whose taking it across the country, what would his advice be to her regarding the timing belt. Then looking in his eyes unflinchingly and note his reaction on any level. If he doesn't admit to recommending it being changed, then I think you should turn around and walk away.
--
John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 115K
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The dealer admits that he did not do and is not going to do any mechanical work on this car. He mumbled something about that 70K is "recommended" and he saw a lot of cars driving past that... Jibberish.
Is changing T-belt on S90 only $200, or is it just parts?
I paid few hundreds more for it to be done my B234F - it also involves replacing seals, and the rest of the belts.
I am not going to do it myself this time - no experience, no manuals, never done it before, and if I buy it it's going to replace my daily driver.
Does it require any special tools?
-Michael
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Cetainly if the dealer is willing to repair the leather and moonroof, go for it. But as you've identified, the timing belt is most crucial. It is a 70K interval, but you don't mention how many miles it currently has on it. If there is any doubt, I wouldn't drive out of the lot with changing it. If it's 140K, change the tensioner.
The ACC, of course must be turned on. The AC button should be depressed with a blue light on (opposite to the early 960s). I'm confused by you rdescriptin, however. It blows cold, but the AC is not engaging? How do you know. You might clean out the sensor which is found in the overhead dome light. Canned air will probably help. Remember, that this is an ACC and will seamlessly regulate itself. It will direct the air properly, depending on whether it requires heat or AC if it's set to the "AUTO" mode.
Probably the reason you lost traction is that it's a 6 not a four. It has good torque and it wouldn't be surprised to be that it momentarily broke free. This is something you 'll have to determine over time, not on a single trial. SOme later models still came with ALD and if it's a Pennsylvania car, it may have the winter option, including heated seats. outside temp gauage and ALD.
You m ay be able to determin the city in which the car was last serviced at a dealer by either digging into Carfax or calling the Volvo customer service and giving them the VIN. They can also tell you what options were included in the car when purchased (and where)
I know know nothing of the OBDII- others here have used it. I suspect it's going to be better or certianly more apporpriate to the newer models than OBDI, as that's usually what happens when the come up with newly named items.
Good luck and enjoy!
--
John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 115K
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Thanks fro your comments, John,
When AC button is deppressed, it has blue glowing light around it, and it is blowing cold, just feeling it,
but if I just set temperature to 68 on the dial, it doesn't blow colder air with AC off, although it feels hotter in the cabin, than 68.
I didn't find the switch for "AUTO" mode, probably it just was off.
Yes, this engine has torque !!! It is pushing much stronger, compared to my 16v, especially at a lower rpm. I am used running mine around 3K.
Would ALD make it loose traction when pushed in turns? I have never driven one.
It is a bit scary, honestly, when car in the stock configuration can loose traction on the apparently new tires and dry pavement.
I'll definitely try to call Volvo, CARFAX doesn't mention "winter package", but It has heated seats.
-Michael
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Your evaporator may have gone bad ($$$). You might need to recharge the system and see if you're loosing freon over time. The "AUTO postions are on the fan speed and the vent direction nobs.
Automatic Locking Differential would help avoid loosing tire grip. Again, this was one occasion, ahd there may have beeb loose debris on the pavement. I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions from one event, but it is certainly more possible to do this with the 960, that's for sure. Your tires, new or not will have something to do with it, as well as their inflation, etc.
--
John Shatzer, '97 V90 @ 115K
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Or, sorry - was tyoing at 1 am last night,
the car in queation is 97' S90 81,000 miles on it.
CARFAX indicates last service at 65,000, but no details on what was done, and where.
-Michael
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