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You may have seen this post on T'Bricks. I have been testing the big brake kit on my converted 700 series, a 200 series kit will be available at a future date.
These kits will use Wilwood Billet Forged Superlite calipers either 4 piston or 6 piston on the front, and 4 piston rears with 12.19"x1.25" directional veined rotors. I am currently running the 6 piston SL6 on the front of my conversion and the stopping power is incredible. We are trying to get a feel for the interest so that we can leverage volume at the machine shop. The following is the post from T'Bricks
Alright folks, it’s feeler time for these things.
What Dale and I plan on offering are Big Brake Kits for 700s, using Wilwood components. While we’ve been mostly talking about it in the Article Composition forum without too much to show, we’re getting down to the short strokes of producing these parts. What we need from you folk are SERIOUS COMMITMENTS, preferably in the form of a non-refundable deposit (of course it will be refunded if Dale and I can’t make it work – you just won’t get your deposit refunded if you back out of the deal).
These brakes are designed around the Billet Forged Superlite series of calipers, which are of the opposed 4 piston design. Front and rear calipers look the same, share the same external dimensions, and take the same pad, but have different piston sizes inside. The rotors used will be 12.19” diameter x 1.25” thick, directionally vented fixed (not floating) UL series. These parts have been designed to fit behind 16” Hydra wheels without any kind of spacing or relieving required, though on some cars a small amount of grinding might be necessary on the balljoint (just to relieve some of the forging parting line, nothing structural). I’ve redesigned the bracket and hopefully solved this problem, but some cars might still need some slight clearances. The factory front dust shields must be removed completely and the rear dust shields must be trimmed down.
The off-the-shelf Wilwood stuff that we’ve designed our parts around are the most cost-effective parts they offer: high quality stuff, but surprisingly inexpensive. The calipers, rotors, pads, etc., should cost you about $500 per end, or about $1000 for the full car. There will be some extras like hoses & stuff that you’ll have to find, and we’ll help you find them if possible. We might even offer the hoses and fittings in the future, depending on the demand. If you require even more stopping power, the much more expensive 6 piston calipers can be fitted to the fronts, and bigger rear calipers can be specified. We’ll leave that up to the end user, helping out with more information as we gain experience.
There are limited piston sizes offered in this series, but the calipers we’re looking at using have 1.38” pistons in the front and 1.12” pistons in the rear. 1.38” pistons are about 35mm, which are slightly smaller than the stock 740 or 240 front pistons, but the rotor is much bigger in diameter and will more than compensate for the smaller pistons. The net result is that by installing the front brakes alone, the front/rear balance shouldn’t be upset too badly (though front bias will probably go up). The rear calipers on a 740 have single 38mm pistons, which has the same area as two 1.06” pistons. 1.12” pistons will give a bit more stopping power in the rear, along with the slightly bigger rear rotor. The net result is that when installing the rear BBK along with the fronts, brake bias should move slightly to the rear, giving the car a bit more entertaining on-track performance, especially during trail-braking. This will defeat the European standard of heavily over-braking the front, in an effort to ensure the car exits the road nose-first, so beware. Also be aware that we haven’t actually driven a “normal” car with these brakes on it yet, so we aren’t 100% sure about the piston sizes yet, or if any other components like proportioning valves or master cylinders will be needed.
If the front can be installed by itself and still use stock rears, can it be assumed that the brakes aren’t any more powerful, and therefore won’t stop the car any better? Not really: Stock Volvo brakes (240 brakes, anyway) are very powerful and can stop the car from a high rate of speed in a relatively short distance… once. Performance-oriented owners will install more aggressive pads that will tolerate more heat, but are harder on rotors and require a warmup period. In both cases, the small-ish rotors are somewhat difficult to modulate right on the edge of lockup, when compared to bigger brakes. The benefit to the bigger brakes is that they don’t heat up as much or as quickly, so milder pads can be fitted without worry of the pads falling out of their heat range. Modulation will be better because of the more predictable nature of the pads being in their heat range all the time, therefore it’s easier for the driver to maintain near-lockup from the moment of brake application to the point where the car is stopped. Furthermore, stop after stop can be made from high speed, only limited by the heat dissipation ability of the rear brakes. Adding our rear brakes should pretty much eliminate overheating no matter how aggressively the car is driven, and shifts brake bias to the rear for better turn-in and trail braking.
We don’t have final pricing yet, so things might go up or down a little bit, but we have some preliminaries for you to chew over:
Front parts kit, includes one pair of 6061-T6 aluminum rotor hats and one each (L/R) 6061-T6 caliper brackets. Approximate selling price $350 USD.
Rear parts kit, includes one pair of cast iron rotor hats (allowing full parking/emergency brake privileges) and one each (L/R) 6061-T6 caliper brackets. Approximate selling price $300 USD.
We are planning on buying enough parts for roughly 20 cars, with a bunch of extra rear hats since it’s more cost effective to buy cast iron components in larger quantities. Even so, we’re looking at a large investment of money out of our pockets, so we need to know that we’re going to sell them! Not that it matters much to you, but our investment won't get paid back until we're into our second run of these kits... We plan on designing kits for 240s as well once this run of 740 parts is over, using the same hats but with different caliper brackets, but for now please concern yourselves only with the 740 parts. Delivery will be May-ish, so there’s a bit of time yet, though if you’d like to secure your place, Dale will gladly take 50% down payments. We won’t be posting your names here so’s not to ruin any surprise you might be planning.
Remember: these are racing components and are meant for race cars. If you’re using them on the street, let it be known that there are no dust shields on these pistons, though Wilwood states none are needed and many other folks have said that years of use on the street have uncovered no problems. Like all racing components, neither Wilwood nor Avalanche (Dale & myself) offer any kind of warranty, guarantee, or liability of any kind on these parts besides obvious manufacturing defects. If you’re contemplating putting these parts on your car, you’d better be able to swing a wrench and not bother us with little finicky details.
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Volvord 784VC www.telusplanet.net/public/gilesij/Volvord
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So this kit will work on a 89 740 wagon? What size wheel must you run? Price for a 6 piston set up?
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We will not be selling the calipers, pads or rotors. Those can be sourced from a number of places. We will be recommending one particular place that seems to have the best prices on most everything. Our kits will include caliper mounting brackets and rotor hats.
Not all calipers are created equal and the adapter brackets we will be selling are made specifically for Wilwood's FSL or Forged Billet Superlite caliper. However, we've discovered the SL6-R which is a radial-mount 6-piston caliper is a direct bolt-in replacement, using the Wilwood SL6-R radial caliper mounting bracket. A set of those will be going on the front of my 122 this summer and the FSL's that were on the front will move to the rear.
The reason for sticking with the FSL calipers is price. They can be had for as little as $155 a piece. SL6-R calipers are substantially more expensive. The last time I checked they were close to $700 each.
We estimate our front brake packages will be about $350. Those are very close to being available. We're just waiting on a prototype rotor hat to verify our measurements. The rears are going to be a while. We have the caliper adapter brackets ready to go. We are trying to source some custom made cast parts but communication is slow. The other option is to go with an aluminum parking brake drum/rotor adapter for the rear but that will drive the cost up substantially and it will not function as a drift-inducing parking brake. Until we decide what's happening there, the rears won't be available unless you want to go with aluminum. We estmate the rears will be about $300 for the kit. Calipers, rotors and pads will run about $1000 for all 4 corners, just fyi...
Thanks,
Dale
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Howdy,
Did mine years ago so I have no need, but.... I thought I'd mention that the word is "vaned" not "veined"; one has "vanes" in a rotor, not "veins". ;)
You're a better man than I, selling brake kits. Have liability insurance? Seriously.
Peter
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www.machinedthings.com
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Thanks for putting this up here Ian. If anyone is interested they can email me directly at volvo245gti "at" shaw "dot" ca.
Dale
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Read our disclaimer? Probably not yet simply because we haven't published it yet.This is Wilwood's but ours will be very similar...
DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY
Purchasers recognize and understand that racing parts and equipment, such as disc brakes, hubs, etc. and all
parts, inventory and services manufactured and/or sold by Wilwood Engineering, Inc. are exposed to many and
varied conditions due to the manner in which they are installed and used. Purchasers and Wilwood Engineering,
Inc. consciously desire to make their own bargain, irrespective of any court decision and purchasers agree upon
good faith and in consideration for being allowed to purchase from Wilwood Engineering, Inc. said parts or services.
Purchasers expressly acknowledge and understand that Wilwood Engineering, Inc. does not make any affirmation
of fact or promise to purchaser, which relates to said parts, inventory, or services that becomes part of the basis
of the bargain between Wilwood Engineering, Inc. and purchasers. Nor does Wilwood Engineering, Inc. make, or
cause to be made to purchaser any description of the goods sold to purchaser, nor does Wilwood Engineering,
Inc. make, or cause to be made, as part of the basis of the bargain with purchasers, any description or affirmation
of fact concerning any sample or model of racing parts, and equipment inventory or service.
As further consideration for purchasers using Wilwood Engineering, Inc. racing parts and equipment any and all
inventory and services, purchasers acknowledge that due to the differing conditions and circumstances under
which all equipment and parts are installed and used, purchasers are not relying on Wilwood Engineering, Inc. skill
or judgement to select or furnish the proper part or equipment. Purchasers expressly affirm they are relying upon
their own skill or judgement to select and purchase suitable goods.
Wilwood Engineering, Inc. makes no warranties whatsoever, expressed or implied, oral or written, to purchasers.
There is no warranty of merchantability made to purchasers. Wilwood Engineering, Inc. further excludes any
implied warranty of fitness with respect to racing and equipment, any and all inventory and service.
It is expressly understood and agreed between purchasers and Wilwood Engineering, Inc. that as part of the bargain
between Wilwood Engineering, Inc. and purchasers, and in consideration of doing business with each other, all
purchasers take, select and purchase said racing parts, equipment, any and all inventory, or services from Wilwood
Engineering, Inc. “as is” and “with all faults” and Wilwood Engineering, Inc. shall always provide purchasers with
a full and complete opportunity to examine, at purchasers’ leisure and convenience, any racing parts and equipment,
any and all inventory, or services when purchasing or contemplating purchasing from Wilwood Engineering, Inc.
If, and in the event that purchasers expressly or impliedly cause representations, or statements or affirmations of
fact contrary to this disclaimer of all warranties, expressed or implied, then purchasers agree to indemnify and hold
harmless Wilwood Engineering, Inc. in the event of any claim, demand, or legal action against Wilwood
Engineering, Inc. by any purchaser.
Purchasers understand and agree that no officer, director, employee, or salesman of Wilwood Engineering, Inc.
has any authority to make any statement contrary to the terms of this agreement. On the contrary, Wilwood
Engineering, Inc. disavows any statement contrary to what is herein above written.
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These are top quality components
thought I would show off the front caliper brackets
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Volvord 784VC www.telusplanet.net/public/gilesij/Volvord
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glad to see that you are keeping the pricing within reach for more people...
please don't take this the wrong way, but the adapter needs some finishing work such as chamfers on the tapped holes as well on the corners, I know it's a minor thing, but apperances even on a part that won't really be seen has an effect on the buyer at 1st glance..
for my own 242, I've opted for the 12" rotors but in .810 width
good luck
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Appreciate the comments.
The brackets pictured are the developmental prototypes, the final version will have the "appearance" worthy of their quality
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Volvord 784VC www.telusplanet.net/public/gilesij/Volvord
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