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I'm replacing the timing belt on my 2001 S80 2.9 (non-turbo). I know you are supposed to set #1 cylinder to Top Dead Center (TDC) of the compression stroke by aligning the timing marks on both the crankshaft and the two camshaft gears.
I found the marks on the camshaft gears (and the two notches in the upper timing belt cover that they align with) no problem, but I CANNOT find any timing mark on the crankshaft!!! I don't see anything on either the timing gear or the crankshaft pulley. No marks...no notches...nothing.
Where is this elusive timing mark? And what do you line it up with for TDC???
Any info is much appreciated!
G Squared
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2001 S80 2.9 (non-turbo), 113K miles
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I just did the timing belt on my 01 V70 T5 today. I too couldn'nt find a destinctive mark. The mark is forward (toward front of car) of the notches for the belt, and will translate to a "groove" in the pully. This will in turn align with a part on the block that has 2 "protuburences". The correct alignment is on the left. If you have the 2 cams in alignment, then the crank is also aligned. Make your own mark to ensure nothing moves while doing the job as extra insurance. I counted the nubs between the notches on the cam to make sure I had the tension correct when putting on the new one. Getting the dampener off was the challenge, I ended up modifing a steering wheel puller to make it work. I also found it quite challanging getting the belt on. I found that positioning the belt over all the pullies and then putting on the tensioner last worked best for me. Only engage a few threads to allow the tensioner to align correctly after getting it started. HOld the adjuster steady with the 6mm allen wrench while tightening the attachment bolt once you have the proper tensioning. Flex the belt a few times to make sure the tensioner is working. My mechanic suggested a couple of seconds of run time prior to deciding if the tension is correct. I did, and was just fine.
I wish you the best of luck.
Jerry
01 V70 T5
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Jerry --
Meant to ask you...does your engine have VVT? (Variable Valve Timing). And if so did you set the #1 TDC position by rotating the engine clockwise until the cam marks line up, then turn the crank another 90 degrees (1/4 turn) further clockwise, and then back (counterclockwise) till the cam marks lined up again?
And most importantly, if you do have VVT and did the above, did the cam sprockets move at all when you took off the old/replaced the new timing belt?
I'm reconsidering trying to do it myself again, but am having nightmares about the cam sprockets moving (without a cam lock tool)...and then I am toast!
Thanks,
G Squared
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2001 S80 2.9 (non-turbo), 115K miles
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Many thanks for the reply Jerry.
I did subsequently find the timing marks on the crankshaft after calling an independent Volvo shop that I found on the internet (www.volvohelp.com). The owner John Brederson (Master Volvo Technician) was very gracious and explained everything to me. I can't thank him enough for his time and advice!
Turns out that on my engine there is a raised "nub" on the timing belt pulley on the crankshaft. This nub is the timing mark. The reason I couldn't find it is because it is hidden from view under the serp belt pulley...you can't see it unless that pulley is removed also. But once John explained where it was I felt for it with my finger, and sure enough, there it was. And exactly in line with the timing mark on the block (the "protuberance" on the left side that you mentioned.)
On my engine there is a vibration dampener that is held on by 4 bolts. This I removed in order to get the serp belt off. Under the dampener there is the serp belt pulley which I did not remove because it is held on by a large nut and you need some way to lock the crank to remove it, some special tool that I don't have. Or maybe an air gun would have taken it off but I don't have that either.
John also told me that it is IMPERATIVE that you use a cam lock tool. He said that the cam sprockets can move when you are removing the old/installing the new belt, and then you are in big trouble. I had purchased one made by Lisle, tool number 36880, but it turns out that it doesn't work on my particular engine. The way the cam sprockets are made there is nothing for the tool to grab onto. (Note for others reading this thread...it may work on other Volvo engines.)
So for all those reasons I decided to give up, and will take it to a shop to have the timing belt/tensioner/pulley installed. I have also read several horror stories on the Volvo boards of guys destroying their engines after not replacing the timing belt correctly. Mine is an "interference" engine which means the valves will hit the pistons if the cam timing is not 100% perfect. My engine is further complicated by something called VVT (Variable Valve Timing). If the VVT gets messed up by the cam sprockets moving even a little, it is a very complicated (and expensive) procedure to reset it that requires special tools.
But I'm glad you were able to do yours on your own and save some money. Thanks for the info.
G Squared
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2001 S80 2.9 (non-turbo), 113K miles
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The cam locking tool worked for non VVT engines, not yours. You could have turned the engine past tdc, clockwise, and then back to tdc to remove tension on the intake cam. Use whiteout to paint better markings. The cam will not sudenly spin when you take the belt off, but it can move a little, so, just move it back by hand.
If you are 1 or 2 teeth off the marks, your engine will not self destruct, it takes more than that.
Obviously, turning the engine two or 4 revs by hand is a safety measure and should always be done. Any restriction says to stop and check your work.
When starting the engine, always wait for the oil pressure to rise before shutting it off again. At least 30 seconds.
Do not remove the S belt pulley, it gains you nothing but extra work.
Klaus
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Just driving a 1998 V70R :)
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Perhaps next time, you'll be a little bit more brave. You have the crank figured out now, and the cams are just as easy. I didn't use a cam tool, but did count the nubs in the timing belt between the 2, and verified the marks were still in alignment when putting the belt back on. My intake had moved slightly, but I just grabbed it and put it back into position. My exhaust stayed put! To remove the accessory belt, you put a 14mm wrench on the tensioner, and move clockwise. I took a cheap 12 point wrench, and cut off the open end. By doing this, I was then able to attach an 18" 1/2 inch steel pipe and use as a "cheater bar". Take a bungie cord and pull this as far clockwise as it goes and secure. Getting the accessory belt on and off is easy!
I agree, you must be very careful with the interference engine. Buy a 30mm socket (this fits the crank nut), and after installing the new timing belt, turn the engine over by hand a few times and make sure there is no interference. This will give you the confidence to crank it up and run a few seconds before buttoning it all up. You can then check the tensioner again, and be good to go!
You can always find help on the forum, but this takes time. The 1st time I did my timing belt I started Friday, so I'd have the whole weekend. Good thing I did, as when I took off the strut brace, I noticed the upper engine mount was bad. Since it was Friday, it was easy to get a new one. Since you have alreay taken off the front plastic piece, be real careful about the bolt that attaches it. It is a size 7 as most bolts on the vehicle are 6 or 8. I thought I had lost mine and couldn't find a bolt that would work in my can of spares. What I had done was I put it into the Antifreeze expansion tank hose to keep it from dripping. I'll use something else next time!
Did you remove the inner fender, or did you go in from the top. I removed my inner fender, and it was a real pain in the ass to do, as the rivets spin when trying to drill them out. Does anyone have the right technique to do this? What's the concensus, go in from the top, or remove the inner fender? With the fender removed spinning the engine and removing the dampener was a piece of cake.
Jerry
01 V70 T5
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Klaus and Jerry:
Thanks for the replies. Every bit of info does help. A few follow-ups:
Klaus -- I am aware of the proper way to set to #1 TDC by rotating the engine clockwise to align the cam marks, then 90 degrees (1/4 turn turn) further clockwise, then back (counterclockwise) until the cam marks line up again. This I believe removes the tension off the intake cam that is caused by the VVT unit...correct? And if the cam sprocket does move "a little" when you remove/install the belt, you can just move it back into alignment by hand? Just want to confirm this point.
Also, you said you don't have to remove the serp belt pulley in order to remove/replace the timing belt. Are you sure this applies to a 2.9 6 cylinder engine? Seems like there is VERY little room to pull out the old/snake in the new T belt with the serp pulley still on.
Jerry -- My serp belt tensioner is apparently different than yours...it takes a large (T60) Torx socket, not a 14mm wrench. I use a long ratchet wrench with it. Also FYI, a 1 3/16" socket also fits the large nut on the crank (at least on my engine)...I didn't have a metric socket that big.
On the fender liner question, I don't think you can do this job without going in from the side, at least on my S80. To get the fender liner out of the way, I did not remove the rivets. Just removed the two plastic nuts on the inside and pulled it back. I secured it out of the way with a short (about 4-5 inches long) piece of a thick coat hanger. Bend the ends at 90 degrees (or a little more) and hook one end behind the fender liner near one of the rivets and hook the other end through the hole in the fender liner. This worked good. I've also read on the boards that you can fold it back and secure it with long-reach vice grips at the fold, but I'm thinking the vice grips might get in the way.
And a question...how difficult was it to set the correct tension on the "mechanical" timing belt tensioner? I have found these instructions on the internet: http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ic/ic60326.htm. Is this how you did it? Any things to watch out for? Were you able to torque the bolt? No room to get my torque wrench in there!
Thanks,
G Squared
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2001 S80 2.9 (non-turbo), 113K miles
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G. Squared,
The mechanical tensioner adjustment you provided seems pretty good. It was close to what I did, but not quite, and in some conflict with a Volvo mechanic at my local dealer, and what he told me. What I did was move the indicator from left to right until it was properly aligned. I was working at 90 degrees temperature, so I shaded my alignment further to the right than shown in the example for 68 degrees. I did not take it past the alignment to the right and bring it back as your provided description says to do. The Volvo mechanic I talked to told me to never move the indicator right to left. He stated the mechanism was like a clock escapement and would be damaged. I took my old one and did this, and it seemed to have no effect, so personally I don't believe him, and would have more confidence with what you provided. I did torque to the final setting, but just used "snug" as the initial 4 ft pound setting, when making the adjustment. I also pushed on the belt between the cams and noted the tensioner move and return the set point. After cranking the engine by hand through 4 cycles to gain confidence I didn't mess anything up, I attached everything required to run, but left the engine cover and fender covers off and started it up, let it run less than the 30 seconds Klaus advised, and then checked to make sure the adjustment went back to where I had set it, and it did. Remember when torquing down the tensioner's main bolt to hold steady the adjuster with the 6mm allen. Once torqued, push on the belt and make sure it moves and goes back to the proper setting. Overall, I though it was pretty simple job. I hope some of the other forum members will comment on the correct way to bring the alignment indicator into the correct position. Do it from right to left or left to right, or is all this a bunch of crap and it makes no difference??????
I guess my fender liner may be a bit different. I took off the 2 nuts that hold the metal piece in (I guess this is to prevent rub through). My original tires on the car have always rubbed very slightly at full lock, so I don't turn that far. It seems I remember I could then bend the liner to gain access, but it worried me I might break it bending it so far, so that was why I decided to remove the whole thing. I might go back soon and look again, as to be truthful, getting the rivets off was a real pain in the butt!
BTW, the 1 3/16 socket works out to 30.1 mm. I'd make comment on the accessory belt, but since my intentions were to replace this at the same time, I never considered not removing it. I'm not at all surprised yours has a torx socket, and glad mine had the 14 mm socket, as that made it pretty easy for me.
Through these exchanges we continue to learn (and save some significant cash too)!!!!
Jerry
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Hi Checksix,
I have been following this discussion closely since I will be doing my first t-belt job on a newly acquired s70 for my daughter(I have done many RWD belts). This following links discuss the manual adjusting tensioner:
http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ic/ic60326.htm
as well as this one does:
http://volvospeed.co/Repair/ManualTensioner.php
What I got from these 2 sources was that the pointer must enter the window area from the right side(counter clockwise) and as long as the pointer stays in the window area it can be moved clockwise to fine tune the adjustment within the window. However, if the pointer exits the window to the left then it must be again turned counterclockwise so that the pointer again enters the window area from the right. Confused the crap out of me until I read it about 4 times. How does this sound to you all?
Dan
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Dan,
I agree with you and the info you have provided that it sure sounds like you need to come in from the right side, and that they only want you to turn it in one direction. Makes me now question what I had heard from the local Volvo mechanic, in that I heard or mis-interpreted him incorrectly, or he had it backwards. Hard to say which one, but with what you provided, there is no means to mis-interpret it, it's quite plane what they want you to do.
I'm going to be pretty bust this evening, but if I have time I'll take my old one and play around with it some, hell I might even try to dis-assemble it. I'll also now remove the front cover soon now that I have a few hundred miles on it and take a look at mine to see if the adjustment stayed consistant (because I did not follow the instructions) . Thanks again for the instructions, I copied them and put them in my project folder for my car for next time I do this job! BTW I couldn't get the Volvospeed link to work, but I assume it is similar to the other one you provided.
Jerry
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hi Checksix:
Here is that other link again.... this time I copy and pasted.... last time I typed it so more than likely screwed it up.
http://volvospeed.com/Repair/ManualTensioner.php
Dan
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Dan,
Yep, that did the trick. It is very clear how they want you to do this and I don't see any reason to do otherwise, but I also don't see the logic in doing what they ask! I did take some time and mess around with my old one tonight, and didn't find anything conclusive. I could spin mine either way, and it didn't seem to make much difference. Unfortunately, I'm also not simulationg the real installation. To do this I'll need to tap a plate and mount the old tensioner and then play around again. I currently don't have the stock to tap to simulate the mounting, but perhaps by this weekend? After I do that, I'll see if I can disassemble the unit to see what makes it "tick". So far I'm not seeing anything, but I'm just a dumb ol Quality engineer.
Jerry
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