3 days ago it was quite cold and I could not get my 850 to start. It cranked and because of the -20 I figured it wouldent go. The next day I tried it, nothing just a click. I put it in the garage (with some manual labor)and there it sat untill I was able to get at it today. I come to find out that the starter was to blame for the just click. So I replaced that and now it will crank over. It sounds like a totally different car, but it will not start.
Fuel pump controler was switched with a one from my parts 850 and the car has spark. The fuel pump acuates and does its cycle.
Any thoughts as to the cause? The car ran great before this.
I initally thought It could have something to do with the vaccum lines above the radiator which I disconnected when replacing the starter. I may have them set up wrong? I took the computer module boxes out and put them inside to warm up incase that was the cause about 2 days ago. did it reset or something?

Thank you in advance.

The starter would spin up then let go, I would have to shut it off then it would turn the car over then let go again. There is a man where I live that is very good with starters and alternators and he fixed it up in a day.

Did this answer your question.

Hello, A GREAT thread! I had never heard of "lawnmower syndrome" before. But,cmercon, can you tell us what was the problem with your starter in the first place? Thanks, Kira

Geez...and I thought I had problems with mine which cranks but doesn't spark or give injector signal......

So, since you have spark, you probably need to confirm that the injectors are getting a signal in order to spray the fuel in.....

A neat way to do that is use diagonistic mode 3 on the little blinker box. Put the lead in hole #2 and press the button 3 times for 1-2 seconds each. The computer will cycle through the solenoids click, click, click, then the fan will go low speed & high speed, then the injectors get a signal--that's when to look for voltage or use a "noid" light to see if you have power to the injectors themselves. Here's the sequence that I found for my turbo model..


EGR valve
Turbo Control valve
EVAP valve
Radiator fan at half speed (3 seconds).
Radiator fan at full speed (3 seconds).
Injectors (at 13 Hz).
Idle valve (at 1 Hz).
A/C relay and compressor clutch (at 1 Hz).
Engine speed (1250-1500 RPM on tachometer)
The procedure will repeat twice to confirm component operation.

Good luck!
John

Maybe the common problems with the 850's. If not throwing codes, should condsider cam sensor, common problem. Sometiems just get full of oil from bad rear cam seal, causing difficulty in cam senseing circut.

Good info........sounds like your car(s) are going to be towed....let us know what the problem turned out to be....

Towed? Where am I towing them to? They're in my garage. This way I can work on them.
Will let you all know what the results are.

I will defently try this. I need to replace the code box. I saw evidence that it was there at one time but i cannot find it. So I might just have to snag it off my parts car.
thank you

anything else?

The car is probably flooded!!! Do a search under lawnmower syndrome on this board.

Pretty sure it is not flooded but I will defenetly check it out and become certian.
Thank you

Haynes repair book says you have to be very careful when taking the computer controls out of the car.....battery has to be disconnected and the main power realay has to be discharged (about 10 seconds) before you pull the modules...hopefully you did that. Have you read any of the fault codes yet?

Thank you very much for your quick reply.
battery was disconected when the controls were taken out.
The fault code box is missing on this car. it is the only one of my 850's that does not have it. Will the module from one car work with another?
I know the transmission code will not work as a different type of trans.
Does this removal of the modules seem like it would cause the problem?

Classic case of lawnmower effect, The short of it is there is nothing wrong with your car, The fix is you need to floor the gas pedal as that turns the injectors off and just crank that puppy and i mean for 2-3 minutes.
what is going on is that your lifters are empty up in the head so when the cams go around and the lifters have no oil in them they dont push open the valves, so the oil pressure must be built back up which with the starter will take a long time but it will start.
I know it sounds far fetched but its quite common in these whiteblocks.

Ask me how i know! :)

I'm sorry, but I don't understand that explanation at all.
Lifters are empty?
On the RWD thread there is a suggestion that the lifters are overpumped. whatever that is.
Just how will the lifters become empty on this day, and not any other day?
As I understand the lawnmower syndrome, it is due to starting the car but shutting it off within a few seconds. Then doing it again. What happens is that the engine is flooded due to the rich mixture during a cold start. On the third attempt, the plugs are wet and the car won't start. That is how I understand it.

I agree with another poster that it is flooded, and drying off the plugs plus cranking with throttle wide open should clear it. Maybe pull the fuel pump relay first, until it coughs a bit. Then put relay back in and expect it to start.

Worth a try.

-- S' V'

SV,
the lifters are over pumped and the valves won't close all the way. Unlike a flooded engine, when cranking the starter the engine turns freely and rapidly, not normal at all.
The reason we floor the pedal is to turn off the fuel to the injectors. But cranking until the oil pressure light turns off cures the problem. Usually about 2-3 minutes of cranking does the trick.

This happens a lot. Expecially when people put on a new Tbelt and crank the car and immediately shut it off, satisfied that the valvs aren't banging.

Klaus

--
Volvoless. Its been 90 days. BUT I am getting a 1966 122 soon.

Klaus:
I respect your knowledge on this topic, but do not understand how lifters get over-pumped.
I understand flooded, but don't understand why flooring to pedal will shut off the fuel. Why would that function exist, because when running, flooring the pedal does not call for no fuel?

WOT is a time-honored method of starting a flooded engine with a carb.
If you have too much fuel already you need as much air as possible. I understand that. Would it help to pull the plugs, pull the fuel relay or fuse, and air out the engine by cranking a bit? Then clean and dry the plugs, re-install, and squirt a small bit of starting fluid into the intake?

On the lifters how do they get over-pumped if you start, then shut off the engine before oil pressure is established? And I can't accept that they are collapsed and cannot open the valves because they would leak down all the time the engine is stopped and would clatter badly on the next start.

I have a '96 850 to work on and it has a history of hard starting, even in warm weather. It is some distance away, surrounded by snow, and whatever info I get from the owner is not trustworthy. Source says it smells of gas.

S' V'

When computers started monitoring fuel injection, one of the parameters was to turn off the fuel injectors if the pedal is floored and the starter is engaged. This design was for flooded engines and is still in use today.

The hydraulic lifters get oil first on an engine start. The oil pressure is quite high with a cold engine. Not allowing a sufficient time for the oil pressure to equalize, about 30 seconds or so, followed by shut down and subsiquent restart will over pressure the lifters and you wind up with no compression.
The lifters don't weigh much, so letting the car sit for a day will not give them a chance to drop to the normal resting position.
It is easy to tell if the lifters are out of position, because of lack of compression, the engine will turn much faster with the starter cranking than if there was compression.

As to your 1996 850, when it gets warmer soon, charge the battery up nicely and report back here and we can figure out what is wrong. If the CEL is on, find a code reader and let the computer point you in the proper direction.

Klaus
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Volvoless. Its been 90 days. BUT I am getting a 1966 122 soon.

Klaus:
Today was above 45 degrees F and I established that the '96 has spark out of the coil. It also has some fuel pressure as established by testing at the Schrader valve on the fuel rail. Don't know the pressure, just looked for fuel coming out.

Cranking with the throttle wide open shows that the car is trying to fire on one or two cylinders, but will not run, even with starting fluid sprayed into the inlet hose. Tried it with fuel pump fuse pulled and no change.

Cannot get the spark plug cover off to change the plugs, but I think the plugs are bad and it is flooded as well. The car always made black smoke after a hard start, but would start instantly after warmed up. I think there is an additional, fundamental problem existing. Efforts to get it to a Volvo independent with a good diagnostic computer are on-going.

S'V'

When my 1995 pushed out black smoke on a cold start, about 10 seconds of cranking, the dealer replaced the fuel pressure regulator. The vacuum line for the FPR went to the tree on my 95, so inspect the tree for cracks and missing plugs.

Use a small amount of PBblaster at the base of those torx screws holding down the engine cover. Make sure you have a good quality T40 driver, I had my folding set from Sears that lets me put a good amount of torque on it. Then I put small washers on the screws and hadn't had a problem since.
Attack the plugs first and inspect the distributer cap and rotor.

Klaus
--
Volvoless. Its been 90 days. BUT I am getting a 1966 122 soon.

Why, thank you. I have been hearing about this quite frequently looking through these forums and another person has told me that on another thread I made. I will try this and let you know. Thanks!

Yeah no problem, does the car now sound like it cranks too fast as if it had no spark plugs on indicating low compression?

Im betting that's it

Good luck and crank that puppy :)

Yes, sounds exactly like that.We shall see how that works out and convene tomorrow.
Again thank you.

Well looks like you all were right!
Cranked it for a long while almost three minutes and she fired up!
Why is it called lawnmower effect?
Thank you all!

When there is a need to get the lawnmower out of the garage but the car is in the way. Crank the car, move it 1 foot, and shut it off before any oil pressure is established. Car will now not start: lawnmower syndrome.

Klaus
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Volvoless. Sold the R. There is now a void...