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V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

Well, I drove from NC to Maine and back this weekend. I guess when you drive cross-country in a relatively short period of time you need to occupy the mind with something.

I filled up when I left North Carolina, so I had a full tank. It got me to just past Philadephia. I was VERY impressed with the mileage. I usually run Texaco 93 in NC and this is what I put in for the first leg of the trip. I think I averaged around 28mpg on that tank. I filled up in NJ (usually cheaper than MD or NY) as planned. I put in Sunoco 94 in NJ. I didn't really notice any difference in power (94 vs. 93), but nothing seemed to go wrong with the Sunoco 94 in there either. I continued to average 28mpg.

All the way up, I basically did 70-75mph with cruise control on. Since it was cool enough outside, I left the A/C off.

I filled up in Maine just before heading back down since the computer told me I had 60 miles left on the tank. I put in Mobil 93. The return trip averaged in the 25-26mpg range. I reset the computer a few times to prove that pure highway driving was still not in the 28mpg range. This is where the ol' noggin started churnin'. The car felt sluggish when I pushed hard to accelerate fast. I even thought I could hear a difference in how the engine/turbo sounded. It just didn't sound as healthy. When I got to NJ, I put in Sunoco 93 this time. Immediately, the car seemed to have its boost back. And the engine/turbo sounded back to normal again. The mpg did not improve much with the Sunoco as I expected it to. I averaged 26-27mpg the rest of the way home.

So, 1,700 miles later, I am still wondering why my 'butt' test proved...

1. There is a difference between the actual product each state can sell. I know this is the case for some states out West but didn't realize there was up and down the East Coast. Does Maine have a more oxygenated gasoline standard?

2. Which is more environmentally friendly? The gasoline I put in in Maine or the stuff in NJ or NC?

I guess To Much Free Time can describe this post, but hey, I had nothing better to do last night!

BTW, no I didn't do all the driving. My passenger drove for 2 hours in the middle of the night Friday and 2 hours in the middle of the night Sunday. I did the rest on a account that her driving scared me silly. We almost hit a car changing lanes at a toll booth! It was Volvo (old) against Volvo (new). That about did me in.








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    Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

    Several factors come into play w/gas (Refinery, MTBE, Ethanol, Detergent, Age of Tanks it's Coming From). I don't know about you guys, but here in the north we get our gas from 2 local refineries only. Every company whether it be Amoco, Citgo, Phillips, etc., etc., gets their gas from the refinery, and then adds stuff to it from there, and everyone uses pretty much the same additives. I don't know, but I would really have to look at an analytical analysis of gas coming from the nipple of the parent company and other factors to tell you who's best. Don't I sound like a politician.

    Pete.








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    prevailing winds? V70-XC70 2000

    I strongly suspect that prevailing wind has more to do with your mileage than any difference in gasoline quality. Also, if you picked up much road dirt, that'll account for at least a fractional mpg if not a full mpg compared to a freshly waxed car, all else being equal.

    BTW- Maine still puts MTBE into their gas. I suspect there may be some performance difference between that and non MTBE. In any case there is a huge environmental difference. The MTBE ends up in our aquifers, even though it was meant to oxygenate gas and reduce emissions. A good idea gone bad. Maine is supposed to stop adding it in Spring I believe.

    claude








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      Re: prevailing winds? V70-XC70 2000

      Same problen with MTBE here in California.....the stuff usually accounts for about a 2 mpg difference in my V40. It is suppose to be about a 5% HP lose too. I know when I fill up in Oregon or Washington while traveling that the mileage goes up and so does the power...MTBE is being phased out here in Calif but who knows what we will be burning next...








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    Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

    There is a change in fuel mixture in the NE during winter but most likely not yet. Perhaps you just got a bad tankful.








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    Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

    I was wondering about that today as I was gasing up my car. Does it matter at which gas station you fill up in? I mean, I usually fill my car up with Mobil but today with Shell. I'm asking because there's almost a $.10 difference between your 76 and Mobil stations.

    Mike H.








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      Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

      I have a friend who works in the gasoline industry. I asked that sort of question before and got a pretty logical answer (or so I thought)...

      Basically I've been told that I should stick with the 'branded' gasolines. I do not get gas at a 'Circle-K' or '7-11' unless they say they are Mobil, Texaco, etc. If they are not 'branded' then they could be getting their gasoline from anywhere. ...actually even if they are branded they could be getting inferior gasoline and charging more.

      Also keep in mind that a non-branded station most likely will take delivery of whatever gasoline is the cheapest when they need it. My friend who supplies Texaco gasoline in Texas bids on business to non-branded stations all the time. If he's the cheapest, the non-branded station gets high-quality Texaco gasoline. So, just because a place isn't branded doesn't mean they have poor quality gasoline.

      (IMO) Basically, all gas is the same considering it comes from the ground. Each gasoline company puts in their own bunch of detergents and junk. If you don't know where the fuel comes from you can't trust the brand name. I'm willing to put in a little more money into my tank in order to have that level of confidence.

      Also, if you see a gasoline truck refilling a station, drive on to the next one. If there is any build up of contaminants in the tank reservoir at that gas station it will be stirred up and COULD get into your gas tank. I'd assume they would have filters to get it out of the system, but hey, you never know.

      When I lived in New England, I would go to Mobil. I had a bit of trouble with water in my gas from a specific gas station, but didn't attribute the problem to the Mobil brand. I liked Mobil because they always looked clean (hey, a brightly lit white building does that, huh?). I never went to Texacos in New England because they always seemed dirty. Now that I'm in North Carolina I go to Texacos almost exclusively. If I can't wait for a Texaco, I go to Shell. It is a rare sight to see a Mobil station and even if I did see one I probably would still look for a Texaco.

      I'd be curious to hear what people consider Tier 1, 2, 3 stations... Here's my list. No scientific studies have been done to put these in order, just my gut feel impression of the gas and the station quality. I might be young but I'm approaching 1,000,000 miles in the seat at this point already. Most of my driving has been East of the Mississippi though. I assume a different result will crop up based on where you live.

      Tier 1: Texaco, Mobil, Shell, BP

      Tier 2: Amaco, Exxon, Phillips 66

      Tier 3: 76, Hess, non-branded

      Ok... I've done the too much information thing on this post... sorry. :-) I guess being a fast typist does that to me.

      Bill








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        Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

        My brand preferences (highest to lowest; I have no "tier 3"):

        COLO: Conoco, Texaco or Amoco (91 octane)

        OTHER: Shell, Chevron, Amoco/Texaco, Philips66 (generally 93 octane)

        (after that, either it's a brand I've heard of or it's not; I'll usually

        choose the one I've heard of, but not always; it's as Pete said, all the

        similar gas sold in stations in a remote location almost certainly came out

        of the same distributor's tank. (Each one adds their own fuel additives,

        which can be different, but perhaps the most important additive is the dye

        they can potentially later use to refute a claim that their gas caused

        some kind of damage!)

        I prefer gas with good cleaning properties (not just injectors, but intake

        tract too); this is what seems to keep my engine happy over the long term.

        But I always treat my car's fuel with DurAlt Fuel Conditioner (1 oz per

        16 gallons or so), which makes any gas work better (partly by altering fuel

        properties, partly by keeping the engine cleanest).

        Sunoco 94 sucks; I'll put in up to 8 gallons in my tank, but only to get

        their oil change discount coupon before having Mom's car's oil changed

        there; otherwise I avoid it.

        I cannot recall having heard of Sunoco 93 in recent years, though. But

        octane ratings do vary by some regions, and also over time...

        I've come to prefer Shell when I'm in the low country, but that was based

        upon Shell's inclusion of just "a smidge" of MTBE in their 93-octane blend.

        But I only visit there, I don't live there, so I'm not sure Shell is really

        that good at keeping intake bits clean long-term, but it's not like Sun94,

        where the engine performance can go downhill after 1 tankful, either.

        No don't get me wrong, I've been fighting against MTBE in gas for 13 years.

        It's a poison. In an odd way, I'm glad it's finally been noticed in

        drinking water -- no one but me seemed to mind breathing the poison, but

        everyone seems upset if they're forced to drink it! (Congress effectively

        shut down a major portion of the govt for a year over a blow job, but has

        not found time to rewrite the laws that practically required MTBE; good to

        know they always make time for the important things...)

        So as MTBE [very] slowly disppears from this nation's fuel supply, maybe

        Shell is the same as the others. But "a smidge" of MTBE is really good for

        crisp performance, esp. in most turbocharged engines. OTOH, MTBE has a

        significantly lower energy content than gasoline (so does ethanol, for that

        matter); so-called "oxygenated" ("reformulated", too, I believe) gasolines

        have a significant percentage of such oxygenates, leaving each gallon with

        less chemical potential energy. (If you put more oxygen in your gas tank,

        there's less room for fuel there...)

        Fortunately, most oxyfuels are easily detected with one's nose. Especially

        MTBE. I generally put a small squirt in my tank and then give the nozzle

        a careful whiff (the fuel left in the nozzle from previous use may have

        been there so long that the MTBE is long gone even though gas remains).

        If it has lots of MTBE in it, I might, depending upon circumstances, move

        on rather than fill up there. In winter here, I drive to the next county

        to fill up.

        Those "unbranded" (3rd tier) stations often compete on price and not with

        other brands. One 'good' way for them to do this is (I've seen this in CA,

        but it's been a few years...) is to use a lot of ethanol (in place of other

        stuff) to raise the octane rating (particularly in their hi-octane blend).

        The govt subsidy (tax break?) on the ethanol permits them to sell theirs

        for $0.10 or $0.20 less than other brands. But, again, each gallon of

        theirs contains less energy. (which means refilling more often, which

        means pushing more fumes into the atmosphere if/where pumps have no

        fume-sucking capability)

        One problem this leads to has to do with fuel injector timing/capacity.

        At high rpms, where max power is made, things happen pretty quickly...

        There is an ideal window in time during each cylinder's intake stroke to

        inject the fuel. But if the fuel is part oxygen, more of it is required

        to properly mix with the air being ingested. But the only way to do that

        (in most engines) is to leave the the injectors open longer. But then you

        have fuel being injected at times that are less than optimal.

        Also, even emissions-controlled engines do not burn stoiciometrically at

        WOT. They burn a little extra fuel (ie, they burn rich), mainly to help

        keep temperatures down (ie, don't want to melt those spark plug electrodes

        [or anything else, incl oxygen sensor(s)!] too much/quickly. In this mode,

        there is no "closed feedback loop" involving the oxygen sensors, ECU and

        fuel injectors. This fuel-burning strategy will be affected somewhat if

        the fuel isn't as rich as expected or needed. Hopefully the lower energy

        content will result in lower power output and accompanying lower heat

        production, but that's not necessarily so; the fuel could burn hotter

        (extra oxygen) even as power output is lower. While this is not enough

        to melt one's engine, the tendency is there; spark plugs and oxygen sensors

        would probably feel it most. This is a case where I definitely feel better

        knowing I have an extra margin of safety in the form of DurAlt, which

        lowers exhaust port temperatures by helping combustion be more complete

        before the exhaust valve opens; this permits more of the fuel's energy to

        be put to work pushing down the piston, and less to escape as heat waste.

        Oxyfuel is an oxymoron.*

        - Dave; '95 854T, 101K mi


        * except on rockets, spaceships and submarines









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        Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

        Tier 1 for me: Chevron.

        - Darell








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        Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

        Hmmm...here's my rating:

        Tier 1: Mobil, Shell, Exxon, Chevron,(Union 76 in the West)

        Tier 2: Amoco, Texaco, Sunoco, BP

        Tier 3: Hess, Citgo, Phillips 66, non-branded, (Union 76 in the South)

        Have I missed any national named brands?

        -rdo








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          Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

          Anyone remember SOHIO? ;-)








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            Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

            > Anyone remember SOHIO? ;-)

            Standard Oil of Ohio. They're all BP stations now. A few of them used

            to (loooooong time ago) call themselves "Boron" or something like that...

            All (at one time) part of the Standard Oil un-re-conglomerate that includes

            Mobil, Exxon, Chevron, etc.

            If it's red, white, and blue in this country, people salute it...

            (Makes me wonder how stupid United Airlines was/is!)

            - Dave; '95 854T, 101K mi











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        Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

        Tier 3 might also include Citgo, Marathon, and perhaps gas you get at Costco or Sam's.

        steve in FL

        95 855T/115K miles/ipd stuff

        96 855TLA/62K miles

        01 V70T5









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          Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

          Oh, and I forgot about Priceline gas... wait, that's no longer an option. :-)








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            Re: V70R Gasoline Comments V70-XC70 2000

            Priceline was not encessary "bad" gas. You went to a station that YOU selected. I had been doing it for the last 8 months now. I knew that it was too good to be true...There were instances that I was buying premium at $1.32/gallon and I never paid more than $1.58/gallon (all for premium).

            Yannis







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