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Manual transmission has started grinding going into 4th gear. I think my options are:
1) ignore it, keep driving. I assume this will only get me so far . . .
2) fix it. I suspect this option is over my head.
3) swap the transmission
Anyone have any insights on option #1 or #2?
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Sounds like the syncronizer for 4th is going south. You could still drive it if you double clutch your shift to 4th, or let the rpms fall just enough to let the gears mesh quietly.
I thought you had a 94-95? Not that it makes a difference. The repair is not difficult, but taking the tranny out and putting it back in does cost. If your clutch is close to 200K, it would also be a good time to replace it.
By all means, flush the fluid because it is your cheapest and easiest option.
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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My current driver is a 95 850 wagon, this 93 is slated to be my donor manual transmission car (the 94 I mentioned a few posts ago didn't work out). The 93 is a salvage title with 130k on it but supposedly the odometer went out 10-20k ago so I don't actually know the mileage.
So I'll be pulling the transmission out of this car to access how difficult it is to do before I dig into my daily driver. If the syncro gear is easy to fix, I would love to get some insights into how to do that, I assume I just start taking it apart till I find some worn out syncro gears but I suspect I won't find much guidance on that in the Haynes Manual or elsewhere. Perhaps once I have it out I could take it to a transmission shop for an inspection/rebuild, since most of the cost is in the installation/removal.
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The 850 Haynes says to take the tranny to a specialist, not for a shade tree type. Taking the tranny out is no fun either, steering comes off, axles come off, subframe lowered, etc.
Klaus
EDIT:
You can get the mileage from the computer. A-7: 5x,1x,1x,1x for the left 3 numbers. and 1,1,2 for the right 3 numbers.
--
Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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Right, I definitely understand that the transmission swap, and the conversion of an automatic, are not trivial projects. That's why I've been looking around for a donor car. Hopefully this one will do the trick.
I ordered a code reader so when I get that and have some time to play with it, hopefully what you write about reading the mileage from the transmission will make some sense. I didn't think the manual transmissions had a TCU to track these sorts of things like the automatic does but I could see how the ECU would track mileage of the engine which would most likely match that of the transmission.
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Code reader won't work! You need to use the diagnostic boxes on the passenger side fender.
If you suspect the tranny oil is low, that could cause undue wear on the syncronizers and they would no longer be able to speed up the gears.
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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Hallo,
Have you replaced the oil?
Goatman
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No - I will most certainly look into doing that, seems odd that replacing the oil would help have you experience this to make a difference? It's possible that the transmission fluid has leaked out of this thing - if that is the case what are the odds that flushing it out and filling it with some fresh fluid would get all the parts moving again?
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I got the thing running today (it has some issues including needing a new fuel pump) and drove it to a transmission shop for a flush, but the whole way there the transmission was smooth as silk even into 4th so I decided not to bother, mostly because the car is having trouble running (pretty sure it needs a fuel pump and maybe some other things) and I was nervous about leaving it with a shop in such a lousy condition. After about 6 miles (very close to being back home) it started again, but the car was running considerably worse so I still didn't want to take it back in.
Would the fact that it ran smooth for 5 or 6 miles before it suddenly started grinding be a clue of anything? I don't really want to spend any time making this car run better just to confirm the state of the transmission, so I'm tempted to bank on it being better with a flush just to get this junker out of the front yard. Any insights appreciated.
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Sounds like your gear oil no longer has lubricating properties and becomes a total liquid when it heats up.
Fix the engine! Flushing the manual gear box is a piece of cake, undo the filler plug, remove the drain plug, put drain plug with new aluminum crush washer back in, and fill the tranny with nice new fluid to the bottom edge of the fill plug hole. The tranny should be warm when doing this to help the fluid drain... so fix the engine!
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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I like what you wrote about oil loosing its lubricating properties . . . that gives me some hope. Somehow when it was running fine cold, I felt like that was a good sign that the transmission was still mechanically functional. But I also knew the advice would be to fix the damn engine, and I think you're right so I'll put some more energy into it.
It takes forever to start when cold, and then runs mostly ok but doesn't idle well once it's going. The people I got the car from said they took it to a mechanic who said it would need a new fuel pump and battery. Sound about right? I have a battery and I see fuel pumps aren't too expensive and appear to be pretty easy to swap out. This is the most neglected Volvo I've ever played with so it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the fluid in the tranny is original. Odometer says 135k but is broken, I was told 145k max but doubt that's true. I still need to figure out the onboard computer readout trick you told me about. I understand that I need to put the A box test lead into the hole marked with a 7, and then it will read out some fault codes for the transmission, but the rest of your description confused me about 5x, 1x, 1x, and 1x being the left 3 #s and 1, 1, and 2 for the right 3 #s. Can you explain that in another way? I don't follow. I am guessing the end result is that the blinking lights tell you the digits of the mileage as if there were 6 digits XXX,XXX - is that right? I haven't yet seen a fault code table for the transmission or hole 7 in the Haynes book - so I'm very interested in being able to read it as you have described. The car currently has no battery in it, I assume the mileage values are stored even when power is lost for an extended period of time.
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This is short but good:
http://volvospeed.com/volvo_repairs_how_tos/general_service_information.html?p2_articleid=6
The other DTCs are elsewhere, plus I have them all in my book.
Before you run out and buy a fuel pump, start checking vacuum lines. There is one for the fuel pressure regulator, close to injector #1, that goes to the vacuum tree, under the throttle cover -- if this line has raw gasoline in it, the FPR is suspect and need to be replaced.
There are lots of vacuum lines, check them all.
A newer battery is always a plus. Disconnecting the battery will erase all outstanding engine/drivetrain faults. Mileage will still be retained.
You could also sacrifice a tire pressure instrument and use it on the end of the fuel line next to the injectors. The pressure should be about 42lbs.
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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I spent a few hours with this car today. I hooked up a proper battery and pulled fault codes for A7. This is what I got:
2 3 1
1 2 2
and then those two codes repeated about 4 times before I stopped pushing the button. Does this tell me the mileage on the transmission somehow?
I got it running a little better mostly by turning up the idle a little bit. I drove it a few miles and emptied the transmission, then refilled with some of that funky Sea Foam transmission stuff and some off the shelf manual transmission oil, to the fill hole. I drove the car shifting regularly for 35 minutes after that, and once again, once the car warmed up, it would consistently grind lightly into 4th gear, and only 4th gear, unless I went into the gear very slowly. It is certainly drivable, but I don't want to do a swap with it with a grinding 4th gear, unless anyone has any other ideas for things to try.
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Given that you have a manual transmission and given that the Sea Foam Trans Tune is not specified for manual transmissions, but rather is solely designed for automatic transmissions and hydraulic systems, I am wondering why you put that in your manual transmission???
Also, the Volvo manual transmission calls for a fairly specific oil and putting an "off the shelf" manual tramsmission oil in the car is a questionable move.
The combination of an additive meant for automatic transmissions and an unknown specification oil means whatever you've added to your transmission may be no better than what you took out.
I would drain the transmission again and replace the oil with whatever is appropriate for the car, either Volvo original or an aftermarket equivalent, but at least something of the correct specifications.
If the transmission does not work with a proper oil change, then it is likely toast. But you need to give it a fair try with the appropriate materials.
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Yes I certainly would have preferred to put the Volvo spec in there, but was going on the idea that the oil was no longer lubricating or something was stuck, so I figured my main goal was to get something in there that would get things moving. The Sea Foam was recommended to me and IPD seemed to think it had some redeeming qualities, so I figured dumping a bit in might help get things moving. I was thinking of taking it to a transmission shop now that's it's running a bit more reliably, but now I'm wondering what they would put in it - should I be worried about that? They are not a Volvo shop, but I can certainly get to one to buy some fluid.
I have this car purely for the transmission and associated bits, and would like to avoid registering and insuring it, so I've been cutting corners all over to avoid a prolonged experience, and haven't wanted to drive it too much. At this point I'm leaning toward grabbing a transmission from a dismantler since I have all the other parts I need from this car, but I think I'm up for trying to track down the spec fluid and try it again.
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1. Switch ignition on
2. Connect the fly wire to socket A7
3. Push button 5 times
4. When LED comes on and stays on, enter code 1-1-1 as follows:
- press the button once when LED is still on
- wait for LED to go out and come on again
- press the button once when LED is still on
- wait for LED to go out and come on again
- press the button once when LED is still on
- read off response, which will be the last three digits of the odometer miles
5. Repeat steps #3-4, but enter code 1-1-2 (that is, press the button twice on the last step); read off the response, which will be the first three digits of the odometer miles. If you have less than 100,000 miles, the first digit will read as 10 blinks.
If you got 231 from 1-1-2 and 122 from 1-1-1, then your car has traveled 231,122 miles. Assuming your tranny is original, then that is the mileage on the tranny.
Klaus
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Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.
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