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Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

posted by  Anatoli on  Wed May 18 15:48 CST 2011
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last visit: Mon Nov 4 21:52 CST 2013
[RELATED]

97 854GLT 128K miles


signal from camshaft sensor is missing. Sensor is new though.
i have checked that when accessories are on the voltage between some pins on the 3 pin connector in the engine harness is about 12 V. Have cleaned the connector with electronic contact cleaner.
Once the car is started cold or warm (when it starts warm) it runs fabulously, giving me 31+ on highway, etc.
But once in a while it would just work the starter and not start with MIL on and 3-1-4 code.
After i let it sit for some time or even when i try to crank it and it magically starts, it would run just fine.

Unbelievably annyoing issue, that I would love to fix.
Will not let me get stranded, but makes me curse every time it happens out of the blue.








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    Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

    posted by  Anatoli on  Fri May 20 15:36 CST 2011
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    last visit: Mon Nov 4 21:52 CST 2013
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    Also once in a while I could get the crankshaft signa missing as well, but this happens after I try to crank it more than i should when it refuses to start.

    Surprise, surprise... after sitting for a few minutes it would just start and run as nicely as it did before.








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    Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

    posted by  tmannian on  Wed May 18 16:05 CST 2011
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    last visit: Sat Sep 20 10:31 CST 2014
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    How close is the wire to the distributor cap? If it is too close, it can pick up interference which can screw it up.
    --
    If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?








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      Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

      posted by  Anatoli on  Wed May 18 16:12 CST 2011
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      last visit: Mon Nov 4 21:52 CST 2013
      [RELATED]

      i tried moving it as far away as possible away from ignition cables, but there's just so much room for that.








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        Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

        posted by  tmannian on  Wed May 18 16:29 CST 2011
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        last visit: Sat Sep 20 10:31 CST 2014
        [RELATED]

        then that probably rules it out. If you had two 12V wires the cable is probably good, perhaps you just have a somewhat faulty camshaft sensor? Can you try one from a junkyard (they're usually $5-10)? When you installed it you pushed it in as evenly as possible and tightened it properly? It isn't a situation where it could be slightly loose is it?


        And finally, how is the top engine mount , looking good or has it seen better days and need replacing? Basically, when you crank the engine how much is it moving around?
        --
        If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?








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          Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

          posted by  Anatoli on  Wed May 18 17:26 CST 2011
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          last visit: Mon Nov 4 21:52 CST 2013
          [RELATED]

          i have a few sensors, i'll try them out.
          as a matter of fact i tried a used sensor and it was about the same randomness.
          upper mount is red polyurethane.

          the sensor is not loose, but i'm not sure if it was installed evenly. it is somewhat loose when pushed in, it's not the sensor with a plastic cap that you need to push in, but probably an aftermarket one what is pretty loose when pushed in and not tightened. It's not moving, of course, when i tighten the screws. I wonder if it's so sensitive to positioning that even a 1 degree makes that difference.









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            Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

            posted by  tmannian on  Wed May 18 19:22 CST 2011
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            last visit: Sat Sep 20 10:31 CST 2014
            [RELATED]

            Upper mount is a replacement, meaning it should be working properly. I don't think a 1-2 degree mounting error would make it not work, but it might be related.
            --
            If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?








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            Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

            posted by  KlausC on  Wed May 18 19:12 CST 2011
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            last visit: Fri Oct 24 10:15 CST 2014
            [RELATED]

            The cam position sensor can only go on one way and always the same position. The only variable is dirt on the end of the camshaft or the wires getting too close to the plug/coil wire. The CPS wires should go under them.

            Of course it runs, the CPS will not allow the engine to run if it detects an out of position cam. Once running, the CPS no longer comes into play.

            It sould look like this:

            http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/88318-rear-cam-seal-%26quot%3Bhow-to%26quot%3B/

            Klaus
            --
            Always willing to listen, just not able to take direction.








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              Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

              posted by  Anatoli on  Wed May 18 21:33 CST 2011
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              last visit: Mon Nov 4 21:52 CST 2013
              [RELATED]

              last time i checked there was no oil leak in that area ( when I was replacing the sensor).
              the new sensor looks clean and all.
              Wires are away from ignition cables and closer to the engine/transmission housing (not too close though).

              I'm at wit's end here, really.








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                Completely Random No Starts On Warm Engine: With Efi-314 Every Time 850 1997

                posted by  tmannian on  Sat May 21 08:07 CST 2011
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                last visit: Sat Sep 20 10:31 CST 2014
                [RELATED]

                If you're still experiencing it then its time to do some hardcore diagnostics. First drive it around until its warm (since problem only occurs hot, correct?)

                Take her home and verify it is not currently starting. Then its time to diagnose!

                Remove key from ignition, Disconnect CMP, When looking at the pins on the wire connecting to the CMP Pin 1 is on the right Pin 3 is on the left and Pin 2 is in the middle.

                5 minutes after you've last had the key in the ignition check resistance between Pin 1 and the ground, it should be zero. If not correct, you have to trace the wire between there and the computer ( A18, we'll cover this if you need it later). If correct, check resistance between ground and pin 2, it should be infinite. If not correct, you have a short between A21 and pin 2.

                Now, put the key back into ignition and turn it on. Check Pin 3 and ground for voltage, it should read off battery voltage. If not correct you have to find short between Pin 3 and A36, but again, we'll cover how to do that if you need it.

                Next step assuming pin 3 had battery voltage, check Pin 2 for battery voltage.

                If no problem exists, its got to be the sensor(s).
                --
                If you're not driving it "like its stolen," are you really driving?







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