amen....

head units/amps/speakers is botha science and a black art...your need to get eh science right (i.e. make the numbers match up - and OHMS is the MOST important not watts...) but a great pair of speakers on a great head unit may sound mediocre if the 'sound' of the compnannts isnt matched right...

similarly a well matched pair of medicre componants can sound brilliant if well matched..

For my money the 850 with the shelf speakers and the 'premium sound system' sounds pretty damn good - for a car system.

my qualifiactions, well i used to move high (and low!) quality PA systems fora livving (built a few too), I am fairly serious about my hi-fi (serious enough to frequent ships who are happy to spent 3 hours demoing amplifiers to you at a time...) and have a sketchy understanding of enclosure design (now that really IS a black art...)