posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Tue Dec 20 18:22 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
The other thread was getting too hard to follow. Here's the deal with the status of my PV front disk brake conversion:
I received a lovely (nicely rusted) set of used hubs from Don Thimbolt (1800 guy) today. We started looking at them, and Carlos realized the studs would have to come off (they're mostly bent). Then he started looking at my (old, original) existing drum rotors..then he started thinking maybe they're not really integral, those hubs and rotors--as in one piece. Then he realized he probably made a mistake when he said that I'd have to purchase a new (or used) set of 122/1800s HUBS to mount my new rotors to since he couldn't figure out how to separate the hubs from my old drum rotors--actually, at the time he deduced there was no way to do this, he thought it was all one piece. Then he apologized to me for making me order a set of hubs we probably won't need! (DOH!)
Anyway, to make this long story short, we took one of my old (drum) rotors and proceeded to cut and grind off each stud (they were in great shape, but unfortunately needed to come off to separate the drum rotor from the hub, which I will reuse and place my new disk rotors on--when I get those, hopefully later this week). 4 out of 5 of the studs cut/ground off nicely. The 5th decided to be stubborn, and is soaking in P'Blaster overnight. We will try again tomorrow morning, using a punch and hammer to knock the old ground off stud out.
Obviously we need to make a trip to the car parts store for new studs...I was thinking about going ahead and building up the extra set of hubs I have now with new disk rotors, assembling it all together with the old (rusty) hubs--except clean them up real nice and paint them even--and install w/ new studs. Anybody interested? If so, shoot me an email.
I would post pictures, but for some reason I can't (gallery keeps saying "file needs to be .jpg, .png or .prn format" when I try to post a pic; not sure why since all my photos are jpegs).
more later..
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Thu Dec 29 14:33 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
Here is the status of my quest for (new) P1800s or 122 disc rotors to do a PV drum to disk conversion:
1. Autozone - Special ordered Beck Arnley p/n 0830877/cross ref. to Duralast p/n 3499 front brake rotors for $60.99 each (supposedly solid); they came in, but were vented so they wouldn't work with the (new) 1800 3 piston calipers I have purchased.
2. Autozone - also Special ordered Beck Arnley p/n 0830190/Duralast p/n 3497 front brake rotors for $17.99 each (supposedly vented); they never came in and Autozone said they no longer carry them so they refunded my $.
3. Partsamerica.com (they are partnered with Checker)-- ordered Beck Arnley p/n 0830877 BRAKE DISCs online for $39.99 each. The next day I received an email saying they didn't have this p/n in stock, but would replace them with the "equivalent" Raybestos disc brakes, no charge. I received two boxes of p/n 9844/D17405 BRAKE ROTORs in the mail about a week later. The interesting thing was, although both boxes had the same part number/description on them, one box was a little bigger than the other. When I pulled the rotors out, they looked totally different--the stud hole spacings and hub hole diameters did not match one another--also, one disc was vented and the other wasn't. Neither fit either my PV444 hubs or the 1800 hubs (used) I received from Don Thimbolt. The solid disc rotor almost fit, except if you drew a circle connecting each lug hole, the diameter of this circle would just need to be about 1/8" bigger to make the holes line up with the hub holes. So close, but no cigar. (Also, the vented rotor wasn't even close as far as stud hole spacing, not to mention the disc was too thick for my calipers, again, being a vented rotor).
4. We ordered one last set of discs online..from (I can't remember where) and at the moment, I can't remember the p/n either. I think they were around $50 each...we'll get those in a few days and see if they work. I have to say this was a productive way to spend my vacation :P
5. For kicks, I looked up 1800 discs on the (new) Scandix site, and to my surprise, I see that they have pretty reasonable prices on disc rotors...(hmmm, competition is a good thing, afterall :))
Scandix description:
Brake rotor front all 122 and P1800 cars with one circuit brake system.
Single front brake rotor, this one is not ready to fit, it comes without the hub, you need your old hub and new studs to make it work, you might need to bring it down to the right size using a lathe, that work should be only made by specialists.
Required Qty in car: 2
Order number: 1001507
$ 75.00
13 items available
For this price, I could have saved myself all this trouble. Anyway, if #4 doesn't work, I'm going with the Scandix rotors. If they're out, Swedish Treasures has the next best price on rotors minus hubs (they also have pretty reasonably priced discs w/ hubs, if anyone is interested in those).
signing out.
|
|
-
|
|
I'm following all this with some degree of interest, as it's the one big upgrade I'd really like to make. I first need to print out a picture of a 122 to carry around to the wrecking yards with me. A vocal description just makes them look at me like I'm a little crazed...
I'd have no problem using the Skandix parts, since I have access to any of several lathes, even a CNC machine if needed. Reboring stud holes to the proper location would be the easiest part of this job! Cutting the rotors to sixe is not even worth discussing. ;-)
I'd just love to find a rusted-out 122 near here that I could scavenge parts from. The cars are so old now that they have virtually no value out here. No restorers or collectors in my territory!
Steve
Baron of Greymatter
SoCal
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Fri Dec 30 11:54 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
You have access to a lathe? Lucky duck. Carlos has been talking about buying a CNC mill, but having access to both a mill and a lathe--shoot we could do anything! :)
|
|
-
|
|
|
I might be interested in the hubs. You are basically talking about the spindle itself (and I guess some rotors, bearings, and studs?), right?.
I am about to tackle my brakes next (the front passenger drum is leaking fluid) and was thinking about stripping the drums down and seeing if I could find some rotors and calipers (possibly from a Ford) that I could fit on it. I might be interested in the hubs though just to save myself some time/effort. Who knows, maybe I will luck out and find some used 1800 calipers and brackets too...
|
|
-
|
|
|
Here's a picture of my old PV444 drum rotor & hub (the hub is similar enough to a 122 or 1800 hub that it can be used, we think); we have cut and ground off the studs. They still need to be punched out. They're soaking in P'Blaster.
You can use your existing PV spindles, you don't have to change those out; but what you do need to find is a mount (shown in this picture are both the spindle in the background and I'm holding a used 1800 mount that needs to be modified slightly like the articles explain--by drilling a few new holes in it--to fit on my PV spindle). The hub and rotor from the donor car (122 or 1800s) won't fit on your existing PV mount (holes don't line up exactly), so you have to modify this mount from the donor car as well to fit on your spindle and have the correct location of holes; then it will fit with the donor car hub/rotor combination. At least that's the way I understand this. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.
|
|
-
|
|
|
Hi,
I take it you're converting to disks?
There are two ways of using the 120/P1800 caliper bracket, Either basically as Volvo intended which places the calipers in the same position as on the 1800 or 120, the negative of this is that you'll end up with restricted lock on the steering.
Alternatively you get a competent welder to weld up the holes, and weld an ear onto the bracket, and put the caliper in front of the axle line. To do this you swap the calipers from right to left so the bleed nipple remains at the top.
As for the disk use a complete P1800/120 disk and hub, it bolts straight onto the PV stub axle, the bearings being identical.
If you're going to run a Servo you need 120/P1800 rear brakes, because the Wagner setup is self servoing. The drums are identical.
regards
Pete
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Sat Dec 24 09:25 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
Pete, have you done this conversion? What you described is basically what we plan on doing..except we were looking for a cheaper alternative to using a "complete P1800/120 disk and hub" since they go for around $175 - 215 per side (new). Do you know of a cheaper (new) setup than this?
We have managed to separate my old PV444 hubs from their drums and are just waiting for the disk brakes ($39.99 each + free shipping) I ordered online to arrive. If this works it will have been a lot cheaper.
Photos of separated hubs are here in Front Disk Brake Conversion folder:
http://community.webshots.com/user/guayule100
|
|
-
|
|
|
Yes I've done the conversion, there should be loads of useable used disks around, they're nowhere near as wear prone as the modern ones.
It's also possible to buy just the disk, but you need someone that knows what they're doing to fit them to the hub, the studs just press out. As far as I remember the hub for the drum is different to that for the disk, but I might be wrong.
The genuine drum is not as bad a deal as it first looks at 200 US Dollars or so, (you should get them for less since that is inclusive of the outrageous Swedish VAT rate) As you get a new hub, new studs which will cost you 4 Dollars each or so, and a new SKF wheel bearing.
It's worth turning the calipers upside down though, I have pictures if you want some.
Regards
Pete
|
|
-
|
|
|
I also did the disk brake conversion on my 544 earlier this year. I haven't put any miles on it yet, since I'm attacking the bodywork, but the brakes work well at driveway speeds. I had a lot of help from folks on the Brickboard; there are several sets of instructions floating around the web, none of which thoroughly explain every detail. One such site is www.bearmanmotorsports.com/pv.html You might find references to some of the others by researching the Brickboard Archives.
I drilled, welded, and filed the holes in the 122 mounting plate to fit the bolt pattern of the 544 spindle; I redrilled the two holes that were way off, and welded and filed the two that were close. I clamped the mounting plate to the spindle and used a nylon bushing purchased at Ace Hardware to center a small drill bit in the spindle hole that I needed to match, drilling from the back side, then used the spindle hole again to position the larger bit. I bought high-quality bits, and watched very carefully to keep the bits square with the spindle and mounting plate so as not to ruin either. A drill press would be better, I suspect, for the final drilling with the big bit. I had a front-end shop cut and weld the shock mount bolt so that it would clear the steering arm with the shock moved to the front. This is the part that I'll be watching closely once I start driving the car.
|
|
-
|
|
For the shock mount on mine, I just cut a wedge nearly all the way through with an angle grinder, bent it closed, beveled the seam a little, and had at it with my MIG welder. I'm no great welder, but they've been on there for almost 2 years now with not a hint of trouble, running some nice firm Bilsteins.
I reused one mounting hole as is, bolted in place using that, and marked the other 3 holes. Then just drilled them by hand. One hole is slightly siamesed with the old hole, but it seemed to me to be acceptable, I bolted all four up with the original PV back plate mounting bolts, well cleaned with plenty of loctite. It really didn't take much time or effort.
I guess I got lucky with my junkyard parts, although the caliper dust shields looked a bit dry and cracked they've worked great so far, neither sticking or leaking. The rotors looked good and still are, I haven't even had to replace the pads yet. Those old Volvo rotors seemed to be able to go through pad set after pad set after pad set with little wear, I guess the rotors were hard and the pads were soft. Modern style is to use hard pads and soft(er) rotors, so you have to replace rotors nearly as often as pads.
--
I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.
|
|
-
|
|
|
P.S.
Regarding Peter's comment on the high price of new drums....they'll look pretty cheap by the time you finish the disk brake conversion. After I bought "servicable" used rotors, calipers, and mounting brackets, I bought new bearings and new caliper seals & pistons. I also had braided stainless hoses made up to fit. I didn't get the rotors turned, but may yet after I drive it a bit.
Ken
|
|
-
|
|
|
When I say hub, I mean the round plate (with 5 holes) that the studs are threaded through. They're also threaded through the disk or drum rotor--they are what you attach the rotor to with the studs. A single hub (one side) houses a single bearing out of the set (there are two per side, one outer and one inner) of wheel bearings.
Are you able to see this picture? If so, it shows one of the (rusty) old 1800 hubs I received from Don, attached to a disk rotor.
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Thu Dec 22 04:02 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
Still waiting for my disks from www.partsamerica.com, and I got this message today:
Dear Belinda,
We are happy to tell you that we have found a replacement for one of
your products that is currently unavailable. Because of unexpected
supply problems, the Beck/Arnley product you originally ordered is unavailable and we would like to send you a Raybestos product in its place.
Below are the original item and the substitute of equal or greater value
that we are sending at no additional charge.
Manufacturer Part # Description
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Old Beck/Arnley 0830877 BRAKE DISC
New Raybestos 9844 9844/D17405 BRAKE ROTOR
We will ship the Raybestos product to you as
quickly as possible. If this is unacceptable, please contact Customer
Service. We apologize for any inconvenience this change may cause.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone is interested, I am putting the photos of my disk brake conversion here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/guayule100
In the folder called:
Front Disk Brake Conversion
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be Derek UK
on
Thu Dec 22 13:30 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
It'll be interesting to see what gets delivered. I was just about to write a few things about your conversion.
Essentially the drum/hub and the disc/hub are one piece. They are made in 2 pieces with the drum and the disc shrunk onto the hub. After this is done they are skimmed up in a lathe to get everything running true. Replacements are hard to get and expensive. There are scources here in UK/Europe for them but you need to trade in your hubs so that they can be recycled. Not sure where they are done but they are done as a batch so waiting a while isn't unusual. When the bill is likely to be $400 plus it gives you time to save up!
This link might help http://www.bearmanmotorsports.com/page4.html It's a bit more recent than Roger Portman's article.
Keep us updated.
Derek
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Wed Dec 28 16:47 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
The rotors came in, they are not going to work. The holes on the disks do not line up properly with the hubs. They are CLOSE, very close, but not close enough. Darn.
OK, so I ordered one more set today, and have returned all the others. We'll see if those will work! stay tuned..
|
|
-
posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Thu Dec 22 19:33 CST 2005 [ RELATED]
|
|
Thanks, we were wondering how the drum or disk fit together with the hub so integrally. If they are shrunk on there that makes sense because it was really tough to separate them.
However, with some effort, we were able to punch out all the studs today...
and separate drum rotors from hubs:
This pretty much ruined the drums though; all that pounding on the studs smushed the drums in. So, I guess we are truly committed to this disk brake conversion now that my drums are toast! :)
|
|
|
|
|
