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I have resumed work on my 444 project. For background, I have disassembled it to the basic tub, repaired rust, refinished the bottom and floors and rebuilt the suspension and brakes. I am using rear axle, brakes, trans., radiator/hood and misc. parts from a B18 544 donor car. The engine is a B20 from a 1974 142.
Before doing the appearance body work on the 444 tub I have decided to temporarily install the engine and transmission to work out the linkages and engine compartment layout. Then I will remove it all and paint the engine compartment with the rest of the car. Some questions have come up that I would like to get your opinions about.
Which distributor? I have two complete distributors. One is aluminum with 007 in the last three numbers and no vacuum mechanism - I think it is from the B20. The other is cast iron with VJU 4 BL 33 on the ID plate. It has a vacuum mechanism - I think it is from the donor 544. It looks like either one will fit and I am wondering if there is a strong reason to use one over the other.
Ignition. My plan is to transfer the armored cable and coil from the 544, do the Ron Kwas distributor fix up and use a tune up kit from IPD to replace the points, plugs, etc. Other possibilities are the Crane or Perlux sets from IPD. Any strong opinions about these alternatives?
Manifolds. I decided to use the two SU carbs from the B18 rather than the fuel injection that was on the B20. My plan is to use the intake manifold from the 544 and exhaust manifold from the B20 (4 into 2). This seems better than the manifold from the 544 (4 into 1). In the trunk of the 544 there was another manifold - it is cast iron, combines intake and exhaust, seems to be for SU carbs and the exhaust is 4 into 2. It looks to me as though it is designed to have the exhaust heat the intake. Is there any reason that I should consider using that setup?
Crankcase Vent. (I seem to remember seeing this covered on the forum but can't find it now that I need it.) The B20 has a breather box on the side like the 544 but with a bigger hole in the block but the same size hose outlet. The cap on the B20 valve cover is just like the B18 one - it has provision for a breather hose. There is a fitting for a hose on the B18 intake manifold. I need to learn how they all ago together. (These parts were missing from the B18 and I didn't take whatever was on the B20/142.) Can someone direct me to this discussion or tell me how it goes?
Thanks for your help,
Keith
Moline, IL
I would like to pass by the group here to keep from going too far astray.
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Hey Keith!
If you live where it is VERY cold in the winter, the cast arn combined
manifold is a good deal for quick warmup and for high-speed operation
I would guess will not reduce HP by more than 1% while greatly enhancing
cold driveability.
--
George Downs Bartlesville, Heart of the USA!
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I, too, have a '74 140 engine in my '64 544. The PO had it rebuilt and used the older intake and exhaust. I like the double outlet exhaust manifold, and the exhaust seems to keep up with the engine as high as I will rev it.
As for a heat riser, I was pleasantly surprised when the car started right up on December 30 when the streets were dry and I took her for a little spin. Although it was about 32 degrees out, I could get the car to idle within 15 seconds of starting it.
Now I'll have to find time to fix the tiny (a wee bit of fog on the windsheild) heater leak that I had suspected and confirmed that day...
--
'96 855R,'64 PV544, '67 P1800, '95 855, '95 854, the first three are mine, heh, heh, 405,000 miles put on 8 bricks
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posted by
someone claiming to be belinda
on
Sat Jan 7 02:46 CST 2006 [ RELATED]
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Hi Keith,
Again, don't know how much help I can be other than to share with you what the PO did to my car, so I know he at least made it work:
I have a B18 engine in my 444 and a VJU 4 BL 33 distributor with vacuum advance, I believe.
Carlos and I replaced my points with a Pertronix unit (about $80). This required some filing/adjusting as it wasn't exactly "drop in." We also changed out the plug wires, replacing them with some aftermarket wires from Summit. Let me know if you want me to dig up any p/n's for ya. New dist. rotor and cap...
That is interesting that you say your 444 emergency brake cable is not working with your 544 brakes. I'd be interested to hear more about that.
Belinda
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Keith, I have a B20 in my 444. I used the 007 Dizzy with pertronix. I have a very old breather from the B18 on the B20 with silicone and rubber washer making up the difference. For carbs I chose SU's and have many many happy miles with them and just freeze plugged the injector ports.I am in the process of sorting out a pair of Weber 40 DCOE's. Exhaust is a racing header for both SU or Weber DCOE. I would also look at an overdrive or rear axle ratio when you put the B20 in there. You'll want to go fast but the revs are pretty high with a 4.56 rear axle. I have OD and a 1800ES axle from an automatic (3.91 ) so I have a 20% (.79)reduction (M41) to get a 3.12 for final drive.And... Don't forget ....if youplan to drive much...unleaded fuel can hurt your motor.
http://www.georger.com/unleaded_gas.htm
http://www.georger.com/virgil_2_0.htm
Picture below is after moving the motor mounts on the 140 cross member back 2 inches.
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Thanks for the info, Virgil. A couple of follow-up questions:
Have you noticed how much advance the 007 distributor gives? According to tune up specs for the 544 the B18D distributor gives about 18 degrees (5 degrees static and 23 at 1500 rpm) plus, I expect, something from the vacuum.
Your mention of the rear axle brings up a question. I would like to adapt the 444 "under the dash" handbrake to linkage from the 544 rear axle which is for the center tunnel mounted handbrake. I could not get the 444 cables to work with the 544 brakes and have not yet looked at cable splicing or other hardware to make that combo work together. Have you worked out a solution that does not require that MIG welder of yours?
I'm using the 4.11 rear axle from the B18 544. I had not thought of the possibility of one with 3.9 from an 1800. Thanks for tip. I'll put that away for the future.
I had the valve seats replaced when they did the head on the B20 so I''m expecting that unleaded will be OK. The engine internals are stock otherwise and I hope to get by with 87 octane.
Your motor mount picture reminds me of another potential trouble spot. I see that the 444 front crossmember is different from that of the 544 (but closer than the 140 series, Ill bet). The holes for the B16 are a bit (1/2" ?)forward of those on the 544 crossmember. That's another reason for the trial fitting this week. Hope I can avoid bracket fabbing.
Thanks again,
Keith
444 Moline, IL
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No clue on which distributor to use. If either one is a vacuum retard, don't hook up the vacuum to it. If the older one is vacuum advance, use it.
I'd strongly urge you to put some sort of point-less (not poinless!) ignition system on it. It just simply removes a maintenance item involved in occasionally setting the point gap and timing. I have a Crane system on my PV and just set it once and never have had to touch it again. When I bother to check it with a timing light its right where I left it.
Manifolds - the 4:1 single downpipe exhaust manifold will strangle a B20 past 4500 rpm or so, at least that was my experience when I swapped the 2.1 liter B20 into my PV and initially just bolted up the little 4:1 manifold and original sized exhaust system. The 4:2 manifold with the 2:1 downpipe is (I hear) as good as most headers are. mate it to a 2 inch exhaust for a stock B20, 2.25 for warmed up, and 2.5 inch for screaming race motor. I'd use the aluminum separate intake manifold, I think the only thing the heated one-piece manifold does is improve emissions ever so slightly at idle. And consumes an odd HP here and there due to the heating of the intake charge. The slight issue will be the slight difference in thickness between the B18 intake and the B20 injected exhaust manifold because in 4 places a washer tries to clamp down on both manifolds at the same time. Either fab up some uneven washers or possibly grind the flange on the thicker manifold down slightly to match where the washer bolts down. If you are finicky you might want to port the B18 manifold slightly, match it to the B20 gasket and the B20 head. I think the ports on the B20 are slightly larger.
I think the best routing on your motor would be to run the fitting from the filler cap to the intake manifold, and the hose from the crankcase fitting to the air filter. If you have no fitting on the air filter or intake system, you could just run this downward for an atmospheric vent. At low speeds (mostly idle) vacuum in the intake manifold is high and blowby in the crankcase is low, so air is sucked in through the little hole in the manifold, clearing fumes from the crankcase, and pulling fresh air in through the other hose (which is why it should be hooked to the air cleaner instead of vented, so it won't pull in any dust). At higher power settings there is less vacuum in the manifold, and blowby is greater so the flow is reversed. The cap hose barely flows any volume (less vacuum pulling on it) and the blowby vents backwards out the crankcase fitting and into the air filter, where it is pulled into the motor and burned.
--
I'm JohnMc, and I approved this message.
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John,
Thanks for the comments. Virgil seconded your comment on a "pointless" ignition.
The manifold direction is what I had planned and I appreciate the "heads up" on the difference in thickness. I was curious about the carb heat business. I remember that from my youth working with old American cars that often had "heat risers" in the exhaust systems.
I follow your explanation of the crankcase vent and will probably do what you suggest. That inlet on the intake manifold is about 1/4" ID and I wonder about the amount of air going through it during idle/decelleration. I wonder if it would be better with either a smaller orfice a PCV valve in there somewhere. We'll try it and see.
Thanks again for the comments.
Keith
444 Moline, IL
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Keth,
The only thing I would add to what has been said is that, if you use your SUs from the B18, you'll probably want to change the needles to KD or DX to get the best out of the B20-- RR has also been recommended here. Check what is in there now. Probably ZH. As for routing the vent hoses: I did mine block breather/oil trap to intake manifold, with a PCV valve in-line just above the oil trap; and the other, valvecover/oil filler to forward air cleaner. I recall that I did it that way because I used the B18, alloy intake manifold. The other way around is standard for the B20 and doesn't take a PCV valve.
Bob S.
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