I found a 240 turbo car at the local junk yard. I want to swap my 1990 240 DL SW 's sway bars with the bars of this car. The rear sway bar of turbo is very rusty though the front one is in good shape. Does the rust in any way affects the performance of turbo bars . (It is a thick bar as compared my rusty bar (14 mm maybe)) .
If I put only the thicker front bar How will it affect the performance.

Regards
Gopesh

I'm assuming that 240 turbo you found is a sedan NOT a wagon. The stock 240 turbo wagons used a different (much smaller) rear sway bar than the sedans. "Urban myth" is that Volvo used smaller rear bar over concerns about what a fully loaded wagon on wet road surface would do.

A few years ago I set up an '85 DL wagon this way: front sway bar from a Turbo sedan, rear sway bar from a non-turbo sedan (which is larger than the one on your wagon). I used IPD poly bushings on front bar. With Boge turbo shocks, new suspension bushings and Virgo 15" rims, handling was much improved.

Other things to pull from that Turbo: tachometer, and clock/oil pressure/etc. instrument cluster.

Yes it is a sedan and I fear that it may not gone away from junk yard. ( I was able to bring front one last week and did not have hecksaw for rear, tried other methods.) . However volvo sees it but the handling is really bad. Whenever a right angle turn comes I shift to lower gear mostly 2nd.

Thanks for the suggestions .
Gopesh

These sizes were posted on Brickboard some years ago:

200 Series Anti-Sway Bar Sizes (North American Models) :

25.4 mm front bar, 23 mm rear bar - IPD 240/260 Series Anti-Sway Bar Kit
25.4 mm front bar, 25 mm rear bar - IPD 240/260 Series (Lowered)

23.0 mm front bar, 23 mm rear bar - 240 Turbo (82-85)
23.0 mm front bar, 16 mm rear bar - 245 Turbo (per factory window sticker)
21.0 mm front bar, 23 mm rear bar - 242GT (1979-81?)

19.5 mm front bar, 19 mm (16mm - wagons) rear bar - 240/260 Series 1979-on
18.0 mm front bar, 16 mm (none - wagons) rear bar - 240/260 Series 1975-78

242/244 Turbo should have 23mm front and 21mm rear. NOT 23mm rear.

The '78 GT should have skinny bars.

The '79 GT should have 21mm front bar, 23mm rear bar, and 30-35% stiffer R-Sport front springs. The increased front spring rate makes up for the smaller front bar.

The '80 GT should have 23mm front and 21mm rear. This would become the GLT/Turbo suspension package for '81-.
--
forums.turbobricks.com

There is no 21 mm rear which I thought was on turbo sedan .
So it practically means 23 front will go with 16 rear on wagon and if I can get rear to 23 or 21 it will be great .

I will check on saturday the size of rear bar on NA 240 sedan and Turbo 240 Sedan, on wagon it is 16 mm.

I am worrying because I do not want rear end breaking away whether rain or sunshine . It is like invitation to accidents on a busy road.

Regards
Gopesh

I believe the early sedans didn't have a rear sway.
In other words, its kind of optional.
So if you take it and the rear bar breaks, I think it's not undrivable.

If the rust is just a thin skin of rust, I wouldn't consider that a problem at all. If it's eaten away at the metal to where it's thinner than your stock bar, then you might be better off with the stock rear bar.

As for performance with unmatched sway bars, I saw a post on this recently where someone mentioned the rear end breaking away more easily with a stock rear sway and an upgraded front one. He was very happy with that but I think I prefer the more neutral handling of a matched set. My IPD sways do give a stiffer ride than stock but I really like the steadier control that they give in quick and hard turns and swerves.

Also have a look at the ends of the rusty rear bar - is there a weld there? I can't remember if its welded or bent there. Anyway, if there'a weld that's been weakened by rust that would be a concern.

Be sure to take the front bushings and clamps. Bushings for the fatter bar should be different from your stock ones. May as well take the front end links with bushings too while you're at it.

Have a look at the splash pan on the donor too. Might be better than yours. They like to self-destruct.
--
Sven: '89 245, IPD sways, electric rad. fan conversion, e-codes, 28+ mpg - auto tranny. 850 mi/week commute. '89 245 #2 (wifemobile). '90 244 (spare, runs).

As for performance with unmatched sway bars, I saw a post on this recently where someone mentioned the rear end breaking away more easily with a stock rear sway and an upgraded front one."

I'm not positive on this, but I've heard that it's the other way around, i.e., a thicker bar in the rear, without it's partner up front, will create oversteer. The other way, with a stock rear bar and a heavy bar up front only, would create understeer. Maybe someone can correct or verify.
--
Thanks for all the help. DougC 1981 242, Turbo bars and wheels, M46............1993 245, B230 NA L-Block, M46, Turbo bars.

I agree with you on the big-front/small-rear sway bar handling. A large front bar and small rear bar will give fine handling balance. On my '90 244 with stock springs, DeCarbon orange struts up front, and stiff R-sport shocks on the rear, I use a 25mm front bar and the stock rear bar (probably 19mm). First, the dampers work very well, so the car feels good despite really soft springs and really tall tires (185/70/14). The increased roll resistance up front helps the car turn a little better though, which is a big help with all the body roll. The large front bar also helps to prevent nose dive in a corner that would tend towards wanting to lift the opposite rear tire up. If you picture braking hard into a sharp corner and shifting all the weight onto the left front tire, the right rear is going to want to lift off the ground. The big front bar will work against this, which is a good thing on a car with an open diff if you like to accelerate while cornering.

A big rear bar is fun, but after using stock, 22mm, and 25mm rear bars, I prefer smaller, but matched with stiff rear springs. I can still get a tendancy for oversteer with a small bar and stiff springs, but the inside rear tire stays on the ground and I get less wheel spin off corners.
--
forums.turbobricks.com

Michael,
are those orange front strut inserts out of an old turbo, or did you purchase them new? A few years back, I installed a set in my '90 from an '82 Turbo parts car along with rims and sway bars from same. They're massive compared to standard strut inserts and very nice on hilly country roads.

I got them from a friend, and I think he pulled them from his friend's '80 GT. They are definitely old and used, but when I bounce the fender on my '90 with stock springs and these struts, it's VERY stiff. The struts & shocks I use overdamp the springs, so it feels really good and precise, and it rides great. There's none of that floaty feeling over humps and rises in the road. The DeCarbons are of the same inverted design as the Bilstein HD strut. I assume they could be sent off to Bilstein for rebuilding/revalving, but I haven't asked the Bilstein tech center yet. The R-Sport struts are the same design as well. I've had Bilstein HDs revavled for my other 240.
--
forums.turbobricks.com

The 240 Wagon's Rear Sway looks like 14 mm rather than 19 mm So I think I might be better with 21 MM of Turbo Sedan.
Does wagon have stiffer springs than sedan


I just got more confused .I am trying to summarize what I understand and for your scrutiny .
This throws more questions in my mind.

Oversteer :Rear end tries to break away and car turns more than you want to steer (Natural to RWD)
Understeer:Front tries to break away and car turns less than you wan to steer (natural to FWD)

In case of RWD Volvo
So if Front Sway bar is bigger than rear then Understeer will happen (Desirable than oversteer)
IF rear is bigger than front then oversteer will happen in a car which alredy oversteers which is going from bad to worse.


So one should go far front bigger and rear smaller.
How does absolute thickness affects ( ie present is 14 Rear and 19 front to 21 Rear and 23 front).
Does it adds overall stiffness to structure.
How does increase in difference affects ( 14 rear and 23 front or 19 rear and 23 front and 21 rear and 23 front)

Rather one question can be when the difference between front and rear bar dia decreases and overall bar dia are increased then what is the behaviour?

When you say bigger rear is fun Does it mean that more oversteer than stock is fun .

Can I conclude that even if I upgrade the front to 23 mm and let rear remain unchanged (ie 14mm) ,I should see +ve performance improvements.

Regards
Gopesh

If you go with a larger front bar, the car will handle better. Some people say that a larger front bar causes understeer, and a larger rear bar causes oversteer. I can't agree with that completely. The larger front bar does good things, like keeping the wheels more upright during cornering, which improves grip. Reducing body roll will make the suspension work better.

It's not very hard to change the front sway bar. I suggest you try it and see if you notice a difference. On my '90 244 with the 25mm front bar and 19mm rear bar, I have NO oversteer problems at all, rain or dry. If I want the rear end to slide in the wet, I really have to work at it to make it happen. As in, turn in sharply and stab the gas pedal. Otherwise, it just doesn't slide out. It still has understeer.

--
forums.turbobricks.com

Thanks for the detailed reply and suggestions. The front bushings were bad on that car. So I was thinking of putting the stock ones they will be quite tight .(Here rubber bushings should grip tight or like poly bushngs freely allow for rotation ?) .I have poly bushings but the clamps are wrong. Somebody had already cut the end links. Are they thicker on Turbo Model . The rear bar is bent not welded at the ends like IPD bars. Rust looks thin.
Breaking away of rear end is confidence draining . It is family car as well.
Regards
Gopesh

Keep in mind when we're talking about oversteer and understeer, we're talking about handling at the limits of adhesion. Of course, this is much more pronounced in the winter but on low friction surfaces the size of swaybar rarely comes into play because the tires will lose traction long before any weight transfer takes place. Larger swaybars, wherever they're placed, will improve how the car corners; no doubt about it.

Improving how a car handles for normal city/highway driving is far easier than trying to improve how a car handles on a race track. I had an '81 244DL...completely stock. It leaned like nobody's business on the corners. I pulled the stock front bar (17mm? maybe 19mm?) and put in a 23mm bar. The difference was drastic. It cornered with far less body roll. Was it set up for the slalom course at the track? Absolutely not. Did it feel much better just driving around town? You bet it did. Did I ever push it to the point where the over or understeer was induced? Never. I hate squealing tires...

I currently have an '85 245Ti that, last summer, I ran 28mm front and 25mm rear bars with rear adjustable Koni shocks (on their stiffest setting), stock springs and good front struts (don't know what they are as I've never had them out of the car). With full poly suspension and with 225/50/16 ruber on the front and 245/45/16 rubber on the rear, I could go around corners with the best of them. Absolutely neutral. Absolutely flat. Is this a street setup? Not really. Did it prove to a lot of people how quickly a Volvo wagon could go around corners? Yup...sure did but it was far more of a track setup than a street setup.

The bottom line is any swaybar upgrade will improve how a car feels. Horribly mismatched ones (19mm front and 25mm rear) may make the car do weird things but only when you're pushing it hard. Improving how a car actually handles involves more than just swaybar upgrades, as has already been pointed out in other posts with matching shocks and springs. Wheels and tires play a huge part too. You'll never get 185/75/14 rubber to stick to the pavement like you'll get 215/45/17 rubber nor will you get the sidewalls falling over on the 17" like the 14" will.

I agree that these are subject to limits of adhesion which one can break when 185/70R14 are there and one is pushing in at 2nd gear. I am on budget and accidently found these bars though I have changed the shocks last year to KYB ( Not great but better that 16 year old originals)

I am worrying because I do not want rear end breaking away whether rain or sunshine . It is like invitation to accidents on a busy road.

So it practically means 23 front will go with 16 rear on wagon and if I can get rear to 23 or 21 or 19 it will be great .


Regards
Gopesh

Any way I have installed 23F and 21 R bar . The handling has improved a lot.It is a big difference . I found that 240 T has bigger and longer lower bolts for rear sway bar as compared to mine standard 1990 240 SW and so far I have put the old ones . For the front I had poly sway bar bushings for 21 mm bar . They do not cover the whole circumfrence of the bar . I will put 23 mm busings when these ones will start speaking.

Thanks a lot to all of you for your help

regards
Gopesh

Cool!
Now you can scare your passengers going around corners.
YOU know the car will stay flat. They don't!

As I say sometimes, DAMHIK.

But you should drive safely, and be nice to your passengers too.
--
DAMHIK: Don't Ask Me How I Know - - - Sven: '89 245, IPD sways, electric rad. fan conversion, e-codes, 28+ mpg - auto tranny. 500 mi/week commute. '89 245 #2 (wifemobile). '90 244 (spare, runs).