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although my original pv444 engine is fit enough, (new valves just fitted) i am considering looking for an engine to replace it with, just to get a better ride, 3 gears being a bit tedious, and 24 miles to a gallon aint economical realy,, so my question is which engine to go for, that involves least alteration to the car, i dont mean 6v to 12v thats no problem, i nearl bought a 140 engine (B20) but dont know if it will go in,,,
any ideas guys? please remember i am in the uk!! so no cadilac Etc!!
UNLESS YOU HAVE AN EIDLEBROCK SPARE!! (did i spell it right)
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Paul,
I know I'm a fine one to talk (I have a 544 with a B20 and M41),but I'm going to be the contrarian here. If I were in your shoes, I'd go for a B16B engine with a 4 speed box. I've owned several 122s with that set-up and I never found them to be laggards on the highway, or anything but fun to drive. I drove them on the Autobahnen of Germany and had no trouble keeping up with traffic. In a PV the B16B ought to be even sportier. Yes, it's easier to find the parts to rebuild a B20, but those for a B16 can be found, especially in Europe, and you'd avoid having to make body modifications. If a PV444 should follow me home, and I'd be allowed to keep her, that's what I would do.
Bob S.
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The B18 motor mount brackets are different as some has stated. If you don't pay attention the difference is subtle but one is taller. If you mix them up the bell housing will rub on tne firewall, I know from personal experience. I forget which side is taller so when removing them make note
Steve
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B20 with and M40 (4 speed) goes right in using the motor mount brackets from your B16. You'll have to either modify your radiator, or better get a nose from a B18 544 and that radiator. Those are the largest obstacles. There are lots of other smaller issues.
For better mileage find an overdrive, modify your tunnel and you'll get 30mpg.
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thanks, i would preffere to keep the front off my pv444, i think its probably the best looking front of the pvs with the aluminium grill etc. all nicely polished now!!
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The grilles interchange. But although the B18 nose has a bigger radiator, my 2.1L almost fire-breathing B20 in my car has no overheating issues with the B16 nose and smaller radiator my car has on it for some reason.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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did it just go into the 444 without much alteration? and what did you get it out of?
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My car is a '64 544, and originally had the B18. Sometime in the past, it must have been in a crash, and was repaired with a B16 nose, all long before I ever got it. So I never had to really change anything at all to remove the original B18 and install the hopped up B20. The only weird thing on my car was the tube added to the bottom radiator fitting that reaches over to the other side to the B18/B20 water pump, that was done in the past when whomever it was put the B16 nose on the B18 car.
My point on the grilles is that the decorative grille surrounds will fit on either style nose section, if you wanted to put a b18 nose on the car, you could still keep your neater looking 444 grille. It just attaches with 4 small bolts to the nose section, AFAIK the positioning of those 4 bolt holes never changed.
Changing hood and grille is something I might do if I had the b18 nose and hood laying around, but the b16 (and B4, and B14, et al) nose works just fine on my car. The radiator apparently has enough cooling capacity to cool the larger engine, the admittedly bulky and intrusive arms on the early style hood clear my DCOE carbs. The later style nose and hoods are somewhat better, but the expense and hassle of finding and installing them just isn't there, in my opinion.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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The B18 nose/center section has 2 advantages:
It is constructed to receive the B18 radiator (more surface area, inlet and outlet correctly located to plumb into a B18/B20 engine, more prevalent and thus less expensive to replace)
It also has a superior hood tilt mechanism AND the advantage of a spring as part of the lifting of the hood which holds the hood up in the open position so that a breeze doesn't slam the hood down on your head while you're fiddling with......well anything under the hood. (AMHIK)
It also does away with the 2 oval tubular supports on the pre B18 hoods which were prone to stress and breakage, AND could get in the way of larger air filters and anyhting else that might be fitted to a later engine. Those support arms I found to be a nuisance and a weak link.
A good upgrade in my opinion.
So you need a (B18) nose and hood, in addition to the radiator.
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like i said, i am in england,, that should tell you everything!! these things are import only here and rare as rare can be!! so no b18 nose cones or anything else for that matter, i have to bring everything in
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Have you any contact with Pete Fluitman? He's there in the UK, posts on this board as "122 and 940 and too many" has extensive wrenching experience, much knowledge, knows parts and parts upgrades and mods and sources, and has ralleyed 544s in Urp. As he's there in the UK he will know where to find a B18 544 nose and hood if they can be found. I find it hard to believe that you're not somewhere near one in somebody's garage or back yard. HE WILL KNOW!
He doesn't list an email address in his profile, but may see this post and respond. Otherwise you could just put out a call for him to respond to you.
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B20's go in to where a B18 was with the utmost ease. But not *quite* as easy to replace a B16 with one. I think the clutch linkage needs some work, I think you'd need to find some B18 PV motor mount brackets. And a pipe to run the lower radiator hose from one side to the other.
Beyond a B20, it's all custom fabrication. And if you are asking us about it, it probably means you wouldn't be able to pull it off, no offense intended. Volvo OHC motors are (theoretically) slightly easier, because you can bolt them upright to a B18/20 bellhousing. Anything else and the sky's the limit.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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"...I think you'd need to find some B18 PV motor mount brackets"
Actually you need the B16 (or in this case B4) motor mount brackets to bolt to the B18 or B20 block
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That's good info I didn't know!
Another trivia bit I have learned about PV motor mount brackets is that they aren't the same. There is a specific left and right version. Who knew? Last time I stuck the motor in my PV I don't think I paid any attention to them.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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I'm just getting ready to pull the B-18 out of my '65 PV. How do you tell the difference between the left and right side motor mounts? Also as it sits now there is just the stud and a washer. Is that all that holds it in place?
--
'61 PV544 - '65 PV544 - '64 Lincoln Continental
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The mounts are the same, I was talking about the brackets between them and the motor block. The parts microfiche lists L and R versions. Makes sense on a 122 or newer car, as they are angled, but the PV (I thought) has them straight up and down. Maybe one is a little longer than the other?
I did look, and the B16 brackets are different part numbers from the B18 brackets for a PV. I checked the 122, and the part numbers for the brackets are different between B16 and B18 on them too.
--
'63 PV544 rat rod, '93 Classic #1141 245 +t
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my pv444 has the original B4B engine not the B16
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my pv444 has the original B4B engine not the B16
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i now know that the block is the same!!
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A few years ago I replaced the B4B engine of my '52 PV444DS bij a B20F.
Fact is the B4B engine mounts are not compatible with the B20. It may well be that B16 mounts will provide the easiest solution. However I used part of 122 engine mounts (easy to find) and part of the B4B mounts and welded them together. In any case you will have to drill new holes for the mounts in the front crossmember as these need to be further apart.
The rest of the conversion involves some minor issues only, certainly no such things as "body modifications".
When fitting the B20, there is no pressing need to replace the complete nose and rad by PV544 parts (though it is beneficial), but upgrading the original radiator and installing an electric fan is strongly advised.
Another thing to realise is that you will have to improve your brakes, i.e. fit 122 disc brakes.
A 544 rear axle with 4.1 final drive (and improved location) will get your rpm down and your mpg up. So will an M41 overdrive gearbox. Keeping the original 444 axle with its 4,55:1 final drive will leave you with unsuitable and unpleasant gearing (though impressive acceleration...) as well as high fuel consumption if you use the M40 gearbox.
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