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Hi,
So, I've just replaced my external fuel pump, fuel pump relay, idle air control, air mass sensor, thermostat and done a full tune up and my car is still having problems. Half the time the idle drops like it's going to stall out- but doesn't- and the other half of the time it runs smooth. And then sometimes, it just won't start- cranks but doesn't catch. Despite the battery being only 2 years old I've found that I can usually get it started with a jump. This seems weird since when it won't start the lights/stereo/power windows all still work. Mechanic after mechanic seems to be stumped by what's wrong with it and frankly I've run out of money. This has been a great car- only has 175,000 miles on it and has taken me back and forth across the country multiple times. I've been extremely anal about regular maintenance and love my brick, but I'm beginning to think maybe it's time to ditch the beast.
Does anyone out there have any ideas of what could be wrong with it? Please, I'm at a loss!
Or, can anyone give me advice on a trade in I'm considering for a 1989 240 DL wagon...
Cheers,
Celise
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Thanks for all the suggestions! The 25 amp fuse did need to be cleaned, and the CPS also needed to be replaced. This helped the car run pretty good- there were a few times when the idle would suddenly drop, but not stall out. it's been about 4 days, and I even took it on an 8 hour drive.
BUT, all of a sudden it started making quiet popping noises today, then suddenly I lost almost all power and when I pressed the gas nothing would happen- then it would suddenly surge forward a couple feet and then I'd lose power again. All of a sudden it ran fine again for at least 1/4 ml. Parked it for a couple of hours and when I started it, same weird symptoms... Managed to get it the other 1/4 ml to home. I checked my computer and it has a yellow label- could this be another symptom of a faulty computer that somehow 3 different volvo mechanics have missed??
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The popping noise sounds like it may be miss firing or running very lean.
I have seen on a another post that you might want to ckeck the ignition power stage module. It is behind the battery on the inside fender panel. You might just plug loose the connector and check it for corrosion. Just exercising connectors help scrub the pins cleaner.
Same for the injector clips, especially for the rear ones.
Do you have a check engine light on?
Even if you don't, you may want to access the codes from both 2 and 6 pin positions of the on board diagnostic block by the brake booster. I think #6 may be a component testing pin position. I vague on that and also if your 1990 has the whole thing. You see I have a '91.
Lean running means you may want to recheck your vacuum hoses, cabin components for a more progressed intake manifold leak.
Check the bellows tube behind the air mass meter to the throttle for holes with light from the inside.
Sometimes a tiny hole can get worn into the volutes and cause idle issues. I have plugged them with liquid electrical tape. A little dab will do ya! I use it a little at a time, from both sides and build it up.
Since it runs fine, then jumps back into the bad mode, something is loose/leaking or not able to keep a good connection.
Intermittents can be a nice puzzle. It's usual caused by a slow deterioration.
It's maintenance time!
Phil
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Cranks but doesn't start - has the crank position sensor (CPS) been replaced at some point. It's located at the back of the engine, on top of the transmission tunnel. If the cable sheathing is frayed, that is likely to be the source of your hard starting problems. See this post (among many others) for some additional CPS-related discussion.
Here is Randy 'Lucid's canned CPS operation post -
=======(canned post)==========>
Start-Run Sequence
1) During starter cranking, the Crank Position Sensor (CPS) sends timing pulses to Ignition Control Unit (ICU)
2-a) The ICU uses these CPS pulses to trigger the Power Stage (aka Ignition Amplifier), which triggers spark from the coil.
2-b) At the same time, The ICU also propagates the pulses to the FI ECU, to allow FI operation.
==>(no ICU pulses means no FI operation)<==
3-a) The Fuel Injection (System)* relay (previously energized at Key On) powers the AMM, IAC, ECU, Injectors, and the Fuel (pump) relay coil + side.
* The System relay is in the white case with the Fuel relay.
3-b) When ICU pulses are received by the FI ECU, it "energizes" the Fuel relay by grounding the relay coil (– side) to run the fuel pumps.
When all these things work, the engine runs until the Ignition is switched off, which in turn shuts down the FI system.
<============(end canned post)======
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I had similar problems with my 90 240, I changed my CPS-the wire leading up to the connector was frayed. Definitely check if it is frayed or has a yellow band around the wire-if either is a yes, change it. Check for additional info on it in the 700/900 FAQ.
Truthfully though, there are lots of things to check/do-is your throttle body clean? How's the power stage on the inner fender?
Someone on here with more experience with the different years of 240s might be able to advise better, but I don't think there is all that much more of an advantage/difference in the electrical & fuel systems in a 1989 model.
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You are right. The 1989 and 1990's are the same car except that the 90's have an airbag. In fact, the 1989's are more likely to have the bad computer (ECU). Only a few 90's got it.
--
95 855 GLT Sportwagon, 93 854 GLT (for sale), 90 244 DL 300k :)
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Clean ECU grounds on manifold, battery connection to block. Clean fuse contacts of main fuse by battery. Check its connection to battery as clean and tight.
The ignition power stage module on the left front fender behind the battery.
Duane
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A 1990 240 should still be very reliable. If you have one of the problem prone ECU's(pink label 561 or yellow 556) maybe its on its way out. Pull the panel from the right side of the passenger's foot well and check. The more reliable white label ECU's are plentiful and inexpensive.
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After reading about your symptoms, I'd say their is a possibility it could be either a bad computer (ECU) or a bad 25 amp fuel injection fuse. Been there with the bad fuse.
I agree with Yama, if you haven't already checked the computer (ECU) to see if it is a bogus definitely do that. Bear in mind that the 1989's and some 1990's have the bad computer as Yama mentioned. White label is good. Think the good part# is 900 something.
Any competent mechanic should be able to find a bad computer. If you find a reasonably priced white label computer on your own, it is a snap to switch them yourself. No need for a mechanic.
In a related earlier post -
Pageda mentioned the fuse located behind the battery in his post. Check this fuse first before spending any money on a computer. It is NOT a battery fuse. It is a 25 amp blade style fuse that protects the computer on 1990 and older 240's with the LH 2.4 fuel injection system. Sometimes called the fuel injection fuse. With its exposure to the weather, this fuse and its plastic fuseholder will eventually deteriorate. A bad fuse/fuseholder can cause the running problems you have described since the signal to the computer will be intermittent if the fuse or fuseholder are bad.
While there, also check the conditions of the wires that run from the fuseholder to the battery. On my car these wires are red in color. Clean and reattach securely or replace if needed.
As mentioned I had a similar problem with the fuse/fuseholder on my 1990. Running problems. Replaced both. No issues since. 1990 is a good year. I have 300K on mine and it still runs well. Needs some other work but the engine runs great....:)
Please find a 240 specialist.
Good Luck!
--
95 855 GLT Sportwagon, 93 854 GLT (for sale), 90 244 DL 300k :)
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What kind of diagnostic codes is it showing from both #2 and #6 test ports? Have you or your mechanics done this yet?
Jason
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It appears to be two problems like you say.
I have experienced an occasional drop out with idle and it turns out to be a bad vacumm hose with a tiny crack on the under side of them. Since you have done so much I would think you would have found that.
I thought the fuses was a good place to look as suggested in another post. Just coming out of winter may have started some corrosion some place. I'm sure was the thought behind it.
Since it seems to be a power thing the battery cables may have may have some corrosion under the insulation on the ends connecting the starter or to the engine ground. Check out all the wires in the starter harness back up to and including the firewall connector.
A worn contact in the ignition switch or the connector onto it, might be worth a peek-a-boo.
I have read the switch can cause weird things. It makes some since if a jiggle can drop out relays for a split second.
You might try having the engine running and get behind the switch and wiggle stuff. Try wiggling/twisting the key in the switch too!
Just some things I would try.
Phil
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Has the throttle body and PCV system been thoroughly cleaned recently. Did the full tune up include new high quality(Bosh or Bougicord) spark plug wires, cap, and rotor?
Does fuses # 4 and 6 have firm clean corrosion free contact in the fuse holder? Same thing for the 25 amp fuse/holder and connection at the battery.
Dan
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The throttle and pcv have been thoroughly cleaned, the tune up was bosch everything, and the #4 and #6 are clean- I'll have to check the 25 amp fuse holder at the battery though. Also, the fuel injection temperature sensor was also replaced. Thanks for the tip on the battery fuse- hadn't thought of that..
Celise
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Had the same idle drop on my 81 245. The base idle had to be adjusted. I'm a little concerned about all the stuff your mechanic replaced. Did he/she know that each item had to be replaced or were they just guessing that that item was the problem? I have a guy who works on mine and he has 26 years of experience. He only replaces things that he knows are bad. He analyzes the problem rather than throwing new parts at it. There's an old phrase, "Test, don't guess". Don't get discouraged. At 175000 miles, there are a lot of things that need replaced on any car. And once yours is straightened out, it will be better than any 'sob' (some other brand) out there.
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first, thanks to everyone for all the suggestions! i'm going to follow up on them on monday cause I have to go out of town today.
The base idle has been adjusted since it was suggested earlier that it may be running lean b/c of california emissions regulations. I know that the fuel pump and the IAC definitely needed to be replaced. As for the other parts I honestly am not sure. I had to go to a wedding in texas and the car suddenly started acting up on the way to the airport so I had my friend take it into a local volvo shop and when I returned I had a $1200 bill for a bunch of stuff I never agreed to have fixed- yep, I'm pretty sure I got ripped off royally. As for giving up, it just feels like an 89 240 w/only 115,000 mls on it for 2,000 after trade in sounds like a pretty good deal- and w/out the electrical issues of a 90 would be easier to work on...
Cheers
Celise
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