ok, so lots of good info, the car now has currently died a week ago and will no longer start. its getting spark, its getting fuel. and yes the warning lights do come on when it dies...sorry my fault. tach does jump up when trying to start. i hvent taken it to a dealer only because i'm tryin to have faith in I.P.D. here in Portland. But i begining to wonder if they can solve the issue. ive spent a thousand dollars so far and still no car running. so what if i replace the wiring and it doesnt fix it? i'm out another 500 hundrend dollars then what? thats where i'm at, i keep spending money and no body can tell me whats wrong with it...what would u do? where would u take it?....desperate..thanks so much!!!!!!

did you ever get this car going? what year and model is it? if you have spark, fuel, compression, it has to run--when it dies, something failed at that moment. IPD is right considering the wiring. If your car is of the 80's vintage with sketchy wiring, it is a prime suspect. If you do not want to fork over the dough for a new harness, or harnesses, consider cutting open the sheathing on the wiring around the crank down near the oil pan. This area takes a beating, gets oil, water and the insulation fails. When you run a little bit, the new heat makes the wires expand and rub and the signal to the coil/distributor gets muddled. One inch clear vinyl tubing makes an excellent new sheath. I went through this a few years ago with an 86 and it ran for another 150k without a peep. Gotta keep digging.

OK I'm in late on this since I was searching for an answer to a similar situation with my '95 850. Anyway, I have had two cars that fired up cold and died immediately - a 240 and a Jag - both times it was from a catalytic converter that clogged immediately upon firing. With the Jag it seemed to try to fire but there was no noise out the back. The Volvo just did nothing. I know the cat was the cause since I pulled them out, sawed them open (purely for test purposes 8), welded the cases and stuck them back in...(non-pipe sniffing state).

My 850 just did the same and I pulled the test plug and the O2 sensor and tried again...not this time , but clogged cats can happen instantly on first start.

i had a similar issue on the road with my 92 744. just died after going over a bump in parking lot.. Had fuel, had spark when cranked ( holding plug against ground) had air .. It would start then die. it ended up being a sensor wire from flywheel to distributor that had shorted out against the very back of the engine block. check this wire. it comes from the transmission area to distributor via the back of the engine. fairly thick wire good luck

I have seen several post about your timing. If you have spark, and your fuel injectors are spraying fuel, you have checked that right? You have compression, you checked compression right? Now make sure your timing is right and I don't see why it won't start. FSCE simple

Timing belt has jumped a notch or three.
Whatever it is, it's affecting all cylinders, so stop with the compression tests.
Dry the spark plugs if you want, pull the fuel pump fuse, install the plugs, crank it and spray ether or propane or acetylene into the intake at the manifold - see if it runs.
Normal cranking sounds could also tell you if the timing has slipped, although one needs experience to hear the change.
A thousand dollars? You could have bought my plane ticket and I would have fixed it and flown home the same day - and kept the change.
Diagnosis. That's the key. Not "faith" in some repair shop.

Exact symptoms with K jetronic on an 85 740. Most likely explanation seems to be fuel pressure regulator. Timing light confirms spark on number one cylinder so Hall sensor and timing is all OK. Plugs are wet with fuel and a squirt of fuel into the manifold gets no reaction so it is not starving for fuel. Confusing symptom is pressure in the inlet manifold blowing off hoses which suggested timing was off or valve stuck but all cylinders are 150 psi. Fuel pressure regulator is easier to replace on 740's with electronic injectors. Have not tried replacing the FPR on the K-jetronic yet but it seems the most likely culprit. I still don't understand how faulty fpr gives symptom of bad timing.

why isn't anyone thinking Timing Belt?
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html

He says it's getting spark - it wouldn't do that with a broken timing belt cuz the cam driven distributor wouldn't be turning.

Oh, Of course.. Stupid of me. I was thinking the Flywheel was still turning sending signal through the CPS.
Boy I feel dumb.
--
'75 Jeep CJ5 345Hp ChevyPwrd, two motorcycles, '85 Pickup: The '89 Volvo is the newest vehicle I own. it wasn't Volvos safety , it was Longevity that sold me http://home.lyse.net/brox/TonyPage4.html

new timing belt at 156,000 currently 182,000

So it's getting spark and it's getting fuel (wet plugs). I assume it's getting intake air, so by all rights it should run.

Could it be getting TOO MUCH fuel, as in a failed fuel pressure regulator? Pull the vacuum hose off of it and check for the presence of fuel - that would indicate a blown internal diaphragm. A pressure check is the best test as the regulator could fail and NOT show fuel in the vacuum port. Also make sure the return line to the fuel tank is unobstructed.

I've not owned a 740 older than 1990, but I'm wondering if there is possibility that the hall sensor timing could somehow slip. Have you checked that the spark is timed correctly? Are you sure it's timed to the top of the compression stroke and not the top of the exhaust stroke?

Just brainstorming....

...and yes the warning lights do come on when it dies..."

In your Previous Thread you said:
"... NO THE WARNING LIGHTS DONT COME ON AND YES THE TACH FALLS TO ZERO. IT JUST LIKE IF I TURNED THE KEY OFF,"

My response then (10/19) was:
"...there should be warning lights, with the key still in the ON position.
Could be the switch part is going iffy, which IS like turning the key off.
It's known to happen after 20 years or so."

By "switch part" I was referring to the replaceable part that actually switches the voltage (shown below) when the Key is ON, and is known to fail intermittently. I thought this part could be the source of the problem as you describe it.

But today I just noticed you now say "...yes the warning lights do come on". So "none of the above" applies here. I'll leave the pic and price info below in case anybody's looking for an ignition switch.


9447805 FCP=$102.05, TASCA=$77.31, 1324628 (old #) IPD $103.60


--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Hello,


Why are you paying money to someone who promises no solution? I mean, without a promise of success, is that service even professional? Just have Johnny down the street change parts for a can of beer.


Goatman

Hello,


Where would I take it? I wouldn’t take it anywhere.

What would I do? Check for compression.


Goatman

150 in all four cylinders

Here Kyle,

You might be able to provide more helpful replies to this brick owner with the background.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=218369#post3444675


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"No, sir," the cowboy replied, "I have too much respect for law enforcement to call y'all a horse's ass..."

what does that mean?

what does that mean?

What my reply to Kyle means is, in order for him to have any hope of helping you, he will need more information than what you've put in this thread. The TB thread is helpful, as is the previous BB thread. I don't know how to be any clearer, but must apologize for the inability to use written English, typical of my engineering profession. At least he tried to help.

Not a 700 guy myself, but seeing how you smell fuel at each stall, claim the regulator is "good", have not responded to the harness suggestions, I wonder if you haven't a broken engine coolant temp sensor (ECT) under the 3rd intake runner. Here's what one of mine looked like. If so, be careful, you may have a crankcase full of fuel by now.


--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

When you've seen one shopping center you've seen a mall.

THAT WAS THE FIRST THING I REPLACED

Hello,


My name is Kyle Chapman. I am a student of engineering at the University of New Mexico.


Goatman

whats your point? any answer to my issues? thanks

Hello,
I'm coming in late on this discussion...but...I had a 740 that died with similar symptoms. After a lot of messing around, discovered by accident that the wiring for the injectors that comes up thru the intake manifold had lost its insulation and the wiring was shorting out against the intake manifold. If I remember correctly, the harness comes up in the center and on a quick look, it all looked fine but when you got close to it, the insulation on the wiring was like dust and would just crumble when touched. Take a very close look at this insulation and leave the ignition on while poking around. that is how i found it...had left the key on by mistake and heard the arching as i was poking around. The other possibililty is the hall sensor in the distributor. I had one go goofy and it took me a long time to pin it down. Hope this helps

Sorry,


I don’t want to help you any more.


Thanks

I sure as hell dont know why Goatman wouldnt want to help anymore- unless its about ego. In that case, with this forum, I completely understand.
Its my opinion that this forum is filled with Volvo ego-maniacs, who pompously 'trickle down'their wisdom. Problem is, it is non-specific, and doesnt address the problem.
I have been as specific as I know how: 240 will not start, fuel pump works, fire gets to coil and no further, etc. yet all I get is questions referring to a preliminary step- which is obviously not the problem. Quite frankly, I dont know how one can be helped if the "guessperts" do not condescend to look at auto problems in an elementary fashion. Good luck

Actually diagnosis is pretty easy. I've lost count of the number of cars I've had come in over the years with a large number of new parts and the same problem still there.

In essence all they need to run is a spark in the right place, fuel and compression.

Time and time again people get asked the same basic questions, what is the fuel pressure, is it timed up right, what is the compression reading? The fuel pump works isn't useful information. I've measure the fuel pressure at the fuel rail and it is within spec is useful. Just as the timing belt is not broken isn't useful. I've looked at the timing marks and they line up AND I'm sure the bottom pulley hasn't turned on its rubber damper is useful.

And you know what happens when you ask people those questions; 9.8 times out of 10 the OP goes off and buys new spark plugs, cap, leads, oxygen sensor, followed by an AMM or fuel pump. The scatter gun approach just doesn't work and it is expensive. Frankly it is laughable.

I don't know anyone who does this competently and professionally who looks at a car and discerns it need an AMM by sight alone. We do the basic tests, figure out what the missing element is and address the issue.

Just be systematic, but I guess that is just too boring.

And I even know how to spell know, but I'm no know it all;-)

I have not read all the emails in this thread yet, I need to head off to work, but I want to add that I recently solved my intermittant no spark no voltage at the coil problem by tapping on the fuel pump relay. The mistake I made is I heard the fuel pump buzz and then checked it off the list as OK. Then I moved to the electrical issues under the hood such as coil, powerstage, suppression relay, rebuilding some of the harness connectors (which I still need to do the rubber is rotten and they get loose). I spent a lot of time measuring voltage and trying to figure out why some times I had 12v at the coil and sometimes I had nothing with the key on. I moved and touched nothing. What it appears to have been is the fuel pressure relay contacting with a mind of its own. Any way my new conclusions are that 1) relays can be the source of intermittant problems and 2) some times you need to go back to the beginning of your trouble shooting check list and start over again. I have spent money on coil and powerstage that I may not have needed, but they were 20 years old and if my teenagers are going to drive it I want to have these critical parts that affect reliability updated.

Jay,


This thread was the result of one fewer in years, one lower in wit, whom within a frantic attempt to alloy all within measure in such folly as to grasp at straws with bleeding hands charged his world with the desperations of insanity.

The problem now lies within the boundaries of academia. Another saved by a message boards printing, at the hands of a foolish mans mechanic.


Goatman

thank you i agree

Hi Ken,
Sorry I missed your Mon Sep 21 12:56 EST 2010 Post. Maybe "Rising Fawn" would have caught my eye, since I have a pile of old Norman Blake records vinyl:-)

Anyway, I agree with Art's comments below, and hope you'll take his suggestion and start a new thread, because I have a few K-Jet tips ready and waiting...
--
Bruce Young, '93 940-NA (current), 240s (one V8), 140s, 122s, since '63.

Kenneth,

I was quite shocked at your statement: "Its my opinion that this forum is filled with Volvo ego-maniacs, who pompously 'trickle down'their wisdom."

Figuring your feelings got hurt somehow, I searched out your very recent post asking for help:--> No start 240

Yes, sir, I can see why you got that feeling. Not one of the responses to your post gave me the idea it had been read with care. I'm guilty of that too, on occasion.

If you are still dealing with this no-start, begin a new thread. I understand the works in your car well enough to be helpful, and if you're a savvy enough owner yourself, you'll be able to discern the experience from the puffery on any board you visit.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore

"Never answer an anonymous letter."

Hi,


I will not help somebody who is insulting and incapable. On both forums the poster was directed to check several items and never replied with the result.

This is why I will not continue trying to help, and correlates with the latter part of my former statement.


Goatman