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Hello,
My 1991 sometimes stalls when the temp. reaches 92 plus.
Today it was only in the low 70's and she stalled on me.
She acts like she is out of fuel.
I pulled over and switched out the fuel relay (which was
hot) and that did not help. Then a few mintues later she
started up and drove for about 2 minutes, then stalled
again. I decided to pull the ECU down because she felt hot
too. This is when I realized that I have the pink label
561 ECU in this car. A couple of minutes later she started
up and drove another two minutes or so, then she stalled
again in the Target parking lot. After shopping (about 20
minutes) she started right up and I drove home without any
problem (ten minute drive). The ECU was still pulled down
and had cooled down.
I am guessing that my first move should be to replace the
ECU. I have a couple backups in the attic, but can't get up
there until the kids are asleep. I hope they are 951, 935 or
933 model ECU.
Last year I thought the stalling was because of the Ethanol
in our gas because she only stalled at 92 degrees and above.
Today when she stalled and it was only 70 degrees.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Joseph in semi-warm New Mexico
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Have you checked the onboard diagnostics for error codes while it is in a stall state ? What did you get?
I'd be inclined to think power stage , ignition coil with those symptoms. Generally they fail in pairs.
--
-------Robert,'95 960, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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Robert,
Even with the many stalls that were happening the Check Engine Light
did not come on. I replace the fuel pump relay and the stalling
continued. Then I replaced the ICU (plastic black box) the stalling
continued then I replaced the ECU (Jetronic metel box). I have not had
the opportunity to drive her when the weather was above 75 degrees yet.
I will report back in a day or two when the weather is above 75 degrees.
It is supposed to be 75 tomorrow, we will see, since it only stalls when
it is warm/hot outside.
Thanks for the advice,
Joseph in NM
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The CEL doesn't always come on when it throws an error code, there are only certain codes that trigger the light. You need to get under the hood and check the fuel system and ignition codes for errors now and when it stalls.
--
-------Robert,'95 960, '93 940t, '90 240 wagon, '84 240 diesel (she's sick) , '80 245 diesel, '86 740 GLE turbo diesel, '92 Ford F350 diesel dually
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CORRECTION...
1991 240.
When I stalled yesterday I pulled down the ICU, not the
ECU as I said prior.
The ICU was hot to the touch, it is the pink label 169.
I have a back up (found in my stash) it is black label 169.
Is the black label 169 better than the pink label 169?
I will put her in shortly and see how she runs.
My ECU is the 951 model....luckily.
______________________________________________
On my 1983 240 I have an ECU and another black box near
the passenger feet, what is that other black box (an older
model ICU)?
And what is the black box near the window fluid reservoir,
on the passenger side of the radiator? Is that my ICU?
It is going to be warm again today, so wish me luck.
Joseph
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I had this problem w/ an 86. Turned out that the in-tank pump was bad, and the fuel filter was marginal. After I replaced these, the main fuel pump failed.
I guessed that the main pump had been running hot - working without a lift pump and fighting a semi-clogged filter and it finally gave up.
I see you've replaced these parts though so, yes, likely an ECU problem - which I've also had.
--
240s: 2 drivers and some parts cars
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My 84 had the hot stalling problem since I got it in 2003, and the PO said it had done it for a long while. We're talking 8-10 years, at least. It would start to stumble and then bog way down, but keep going at 10-15MPH. Long hard driving in hot weather would bring it on. Or long hard driving and then a traffic jam it L.A. on a hot day. Mine. too, would always go again once it cooled off.
The problem is finally gone since I replaced the ECU, (and lot's of suspect things got replaced over the years) The ECU's the unit under the hood by the windshield washer, correct? (And the ICU is the one behind the foot side panel, passenger side?)
I'm thinking you should try the junk yard swap like I did. Now I can travel in the summer and stop more when I feel like it, not when the car tells me too. I did get some nice breaks I didn't know I needed a couple of times, though!
PS– I just saw you are thinking fuel pre-pumps. I put the more robust unit from a 740 in mine to try to fix the problem. No effect.
Steve
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Well, if you have another ECU you can try, that would be a good move, but the symptom is not what we brand as a "pink label" defect.
If the ECU doesn't solve it, or you don't have a compatible one to try (951, 933, 561) be sure fuse 6 is not corroded or loose. Another common trouble is, from what I hear, the ignition power stage in front of the battery.
The trick is to catch it failing and have something to distinguish fuel from spark as the missing part. Check your codes, but be aware a fuse 6 problem will just reset everything to 111 again.
And don't be surprised if it isn't really heat that is causing the problem.
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
Why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together?
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Art,
I cleaned up the power stage and re-attached with fresh heat sink,
but I guess all the heat sink will not help if the unit is dead.
It will be difficult to determine if it is fuel or spark that is
lacking, because the problem usually fixes quick and I am always
the only adult in the car.
I am not getting a check engine light when this happens.
Car runs fine all year around until the weather starts getting warm/hot.
I will check fuse #6 and replace the ECU and report back, soon if
the problem occurs soon and later if not.
Both my 90 240 and my 91 240 were having hot stalls last summer. Both
in-tank pumps were DOA when tested. I replaced the in-tank pump in both last summer but the problem continued in the 91. Now that I think about
it maybe the fuel pump that I put in the 91 was defective.
I have a few things to test tomorrow.
I should of tested the fuel pumps when she stalled today...sorry.
And the power stage is not something that I would want to buy used.
Thanks
Joseph
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It may be related to the power stage/ignition amplifier getting too hot, once it cools down the engine starts again. Try a new coating of heat sink thermal paste on the back side of the power stage. If that doesn't solve it get another.
Dan
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Dan,
I removed and cleaned up the power stage and re-installed with
heat sink paste last spring, it might be weak and fails with the
heat.
I think I need a new power stage.
thanks,
Jospeh
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Well, it could be lots of things. I'm not totally convinced I'm hitting it here, but I'd be curious to test the fuel pressure. See if you can get a gauge and test it - that would save you the time of inspecting everything.
It sounds like the condition has been degrading if it is a recurrent problem. how old is your fuel filter? Did you say you changed the in-tank pumps in both your cars? How did the inside of the tank look? What about the fuel pickup sock? Art is right about it being as simple as fuse 6. Fuse 6 on my car had melted plastic and was barely making contact (caused by a slipped spade connector from one tail-lite). A plugged fuel filter will cause low pressure.
Inspect the fuel lines... are they kinked or crushed? What about the fuel pressure regulator. What happens if you pinch the vac hose or the fuel return hose?
Possibly also a bad ground causing weak FP relay contact?? Clean the connectors for the relay & trace back the ground for that relay. I think it goes near the center console (?).
Good luck, Joseph! You'll figure it out!
Steve
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Steve,
Thanks for the wonderful clues and advice.
I changed the fuel filter two years ago. When I put in
a new fuel pump last spring the tank was clean and the
sock was new with the pump.
I will check fuse 6, and make sure it is tight and clean.
This problem only happens when it is warming up and in summer,
never does she stall otherwise.
I just received a response from another person who had the
exact problem and he said it is the ECU. He had the exact
stalls that I have been having. I will look into the ECU.
The ECU is the electrical unit that sits near the wiper fluid.
I will report back in a few days.
Thanks for your assistance,
Joseph
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No problem, Joseph! We're all just throwing out ideas for you. I kind of figured you changed the fuel filter, but I had to ask.
Let us know how it goes after you swap the ECU. Good luck, man!
Steve
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Steve,
I was somewhat confused (ECU -vs- ICU), Bentley talks
about the ECU and refers to a fig. 20 that shows the
ICU (280-11).
I am going to swap
the ICU with a black label 169 model.
I will report back this evening.
Thanks again,
Joseph
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Hello again,
Yesterday morning I replaced the pink ICU # 169 with a black label
ICU #169 thinking that that would fix my HOT STALLS. Well today
I continued to have HOT STALL, it was 75 degrees out and on at least
five occasions I stalled or began to stall and I pulled over and
allowed the car to rest/cool and then off I went.
I just confirmed that last year I replaced my Crank Position Sensor
due to Summer Stalls and it did not solve the problem last year
or again this year.
When the stalls bagan on Monday I was at 1/2 a tank of gas.
On Tuesday it was not as warm out and I did not stall once.
Today when I am at 1/4 tank and in 75 degree temp. I stalled
numerous times.
I might pull out the intank pump to confirm it is pumping and
also check the hose to make sure it is not severed.
Any advice?
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What about the EeeeCU? I'm waiting to be right about this!
Steve
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Hi Steve,
The part I replaced yesterday was this part. Black label # 169.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volvo-240-740-940-ICU-Ignition-Control-Unit-0227400148-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4aa2920516QQitemZ320555058454QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
The other electronic part near the passenger feet area is this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Volvo-240-LH-2-4-Bosch-fuel-ECU-951-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b761f3efQQitemZ170580374511QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
In various locations that I searched they are both referred to as the ECU and also the ICU.
Which is which?
The year that you replace your ECU in was in a 1984, I think that the part
and the location may have changed in the later year models. The year that
I am having problems with is a 1991. I think that they moved the ECU to near
the passenger feet area. I think it is the metal one pictured above. I have
an extra that I will swap out tomorrow and then I will report back after a
drive in warm weather (and before I pull the in-tank pump, since that is no fun).
Thanks for your help,
Joseph
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Some people have suggested that when the car stalls, try to restart it (and if it doesn't start) turn a can of aerosol computer duster upside down and spray it on the ignition amplifier. That will cool it down very quickly. Then try starting it again.
Are you turning or threshhold/hard braking when the car stalls?
And yes, the 84 B23 engines with LH... 2.1? 2.2? anyway, the 84 is different from the 91 in location and a lot of things. I think the 91 is either Bosch/Jetronic LH2.4 or is Rex-Regina. I'm not too familiar with 240's, though I have an 84. I thought it had a B230 engine for a long time :D Nope, it's the neato B23 with forged crank and pistons.
Good Luck!
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The unit I'm talking about has a vacuum hose attached, and far fewer wires than what I'm calling the ICU in front of the passenger seat, if that helps. If it's moved out of the engine compartment, or no longer used, then that would change my thinking about the relation to heat stalling. Yours is a 91, though, and may use a different system. I can't say.
I've had the privilege of getting pretty involved with this 1984 model, but it's my first and only Volvo.
Steve
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Steve,
I saw that unit that you mentioned near the was washer fluid container
in the 1983 240, but in my 91 that piece is gone. It was moved near
the passenger feet area, down there are the ICU (plastic black box) and ECU (Jetronic metel box). First thing I did was r & r the ICU with a black
label 169 (there was a pink label 169 in there (pink label is a not so
good unit)), I continued to get "hot stalls". The next day I replaced the
Jetronic metal box (r & r a 951 with a black label 561 unit), I only drove her for
a short while in 70+ temp. on Thursday and all seemed well, the same distance and under simular conditions and she would of stalled as in the few days
prior. I will be able to test here again this afternoon when it warms up.
FMI- Is the pink label Jetronic 561 that I pulled at the salvage yard years
ago something that I should get rid of from my 240 storage attic? Just to
avoid any future problems with pink labels?
to everyone, Thanks for the help,
I will report back with my driving results tonight.
Joseph in New Mexico
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Hello again,
Today I had NO "HOT STALLS".
After swapping out the Jetronic metal box (ECU) that
sits near the passenger's feet area the "HOT STALLS"
stopped, at least so far.
It was in the upper 70's today and I did not have one stall.
If they do come back I will let you all know.
Once again THANKS for all the HELP,
Joseph in NM
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