posted by
someone claiming to be Russ3131
on
Mon Feb 8 09:47 CST 2021 [ RELATED]
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1991 240, periodically will stall while driving for seemingly no reason. I replaced the fuel pump relay and that seemed to help for about a year. It came back and I replaced the CPS since the wiring harness was all frayed and falling apart. That seemed to have worked for about 3 months. Now it has started again. Just driving at highway speeds or around town, the car dies. It will restart after sitting a minute or so and will let you drive another 5 to 10 miles or so then dies again. Makes for a long trip. Any suggestions on where to look next. There are no codes showing.
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I used aluminum heat tape I had from Home depot to cover the CPS wire,,,seemd to work until I could replacxe it CAREFULLY.
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carefully is a good work--I broke the bolt! It was an experience I do not want to re-live.
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1991 was the third year of that bracket.
Read Onkel's response to someone that had the same problem, yet Onkel also indicates checking fuses.
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo/1600597/93_volvo_240_wagon_stalls_driving.html
Depending on where you reside, that bolt snapping may attributable to corrosion forging in the screw / bracket hole thread interface. Sorry that happened to you.
As for stalling, I'd rather you disconnect, apply some DeoxIT-D to one contact side or another, and reconnect the two. The ignition amplifier is merely that, a solid state signal amplifier like that in your car stereo.
As for your mystery stalling and no DTC (diagnostic trouble codes) in socket two (fuel control) and socket six (ignition control), your stalling experience is disconcerting!
I would consider causes that are outside the engine control logic, or may be part of engine control, like a connection, yet not monitored by engine control to spawn DTC fault codes and a check engine light.
Your stalling is intermittent, so electrics as something to inspect. If you reside in an rust belt region, grounds and connection are good to inspect, clean, and reconnect. Be gentle with 30-year old plastic. Closely inspect the fuse box and give them a spin. More than one person here has disconnected a battery, remove fuses, clean the clips, and put the fuses back in with a touch of grease at each end (or on the clip).
How many mile on your 1991 Volvo 240? Sedan or wagon? Automatic or manual gearbox transmission? How old are your motor mounts? Phil Machine Man asked whether you have EGR or not.
Does your 240 stall when you press the gas pedal or release it? What is your speed? It helps to know whether you reside in the Atlantic Northeast like many here or in the rust-less Dessert Southwest?
Questions?
Hope that helps. Please reply.
Thank you.
And välkommen to the brickboard!!!!
Art's how to add images to posts happy infographic!!!!
Kitteh makes Volvo fuzzeh.
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https://catsandvolvos.tumblr.com/
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Thanks for the reply. the car is a 91 sedan, auto trans, 161K. We live in Michigan but the car just came here a few years ago and is actually very clean. This is my 4th 240 and have driven the first 3 well past 350K. I did clean the fuses very thoroughly, inspected and cleaned the grounds that I could find, motor mounts and transmission mounts recently changed, I cleaned and Deoxit-d the ignition amp connections. The stalling happens at basically any speed--from highway to normal city driving speeds (30 mph). I had one other volvo do the same thing and oddly enough it was a sedan with AT (the others I had were wagons with manual trans). Found the FP relay had bad solder joints, that fixed the problem. The stalling might not happen again now for another 3-6 months. Not really trying to throw parts at it (by buying the ignition amp), but wanted it on hand in case the stalling happens again. My wife loves driving this car so trying to find the cause is frustrating. Thank you all for your help.
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Hi. I agree with Mr. Starkie that having known good spares in the boot and on the garage shelf.
So you have resolved the issue warranting your original post by treating the white fuel pump relay circuit board solder connections.
Treat ground also. Usually a screw with a bunch of usually black wires with electrical corrosion. A loosen and tighten, improved with some Deoxit-D.
However, I disagree the issue is in the ignition power stage or corrosion at the wire harness / power stage connector interface.
Dve Bartons 240 engtine bay grounds article:
https://www.240turbo.com/volvo240mods.html#corrodedelectrical
Another guess is this may be an electrical issue.
Does your 1991 Wagon have EGR?
Do you have the silver hose that connects the exhaust manifold heat shield, routing under the water pump fan shroud, to the bottom of the air filter box? You have to replace the preheater air filter thermostat from Wahler PN 70411 as you need the preheater feature working as cold as you are now. As you have no emissions and safety inspection in might and powerful MI-state!
Also, on facebook are two MI-state Volvo groups.
MI-state Volvo enthusiast
https://www.facebook.com/groups/509272985869754/
MI-state Volvo enthusiast FOR SALE page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/303303343811943
Hope that helps.
Time for work.
--
Beh.
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Thanks for the tips and for the Michigan Volvo FB link. I found all the grounds that I did not know about and cleaned them up. Also, I dismounted the original ignition module, cleaned the mounting surface and put some new heatsink compound on it before reinstalling. I've been driving it for the past few days with no issues. I do have the pre-heat hose and the thermostat is working in the airbox. On my other Volvos, I removed the preheat hose and blocked off the air box opening and seemed to work just fine (even when we lived in Alaska for about 8 years). This car, the air box thermostat still works. If the stalling happens again, I'll try the ignition module and report back. Again, thank you all for the great advice and I am sorry if I did not reply to everyone or answer any additional questions that may have been asked of me.
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Just carry the ignition module in the car. If it stalls simply plug the new one into the connector. It does not ground through the base into the inner fender so it does not have to be attached to perform its function.
Randy
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Any twenty minute job is just a broken bolt away from a three day ordeal
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The ignition amplifier is heat sensitive. I cleaned all my plug-in connectors and applied a thin coating of dielectric grease on all the connection. Replace the ignition amplifier if stalling happens again.
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Hi there,
Yes i have a couple of things you can ponder!
I think I would service the ignition relay if you haven’t all ready?
It’s located behind the battery on the inner fender.
Going down the highway is a good clue that the ignition turning off.
There are two things you can do to it. One is the connector and the other one is more involved with a thermal issue that might be happening while at those highway speeds.
This electronic relay get a signal from the ICU and is the “middle man” controlling the grounding current of the sparking coil.
I refurbish the paste between components with fresh heat sink paste used on transistors of electronic boards to an aluminum base. This is the same setup!
The paste is white in color and come in tiny tubes to keep the absorptive price down or higher up, depending on how you look at it! Electronic shops are more competitive than the Loctite’s scam packaging in automotive chain store sectors!
The connector has tiny pins inside that may be slightly corroded along with a ground wire, out of the harness around there. It’s fastened under a screw with another ground wire. The screw can get rusted where it engages the steel.
Sometime just pulling the connector off and putting it back on disturbs the green or white gremlin in there!
But if I’m going to the trouble get to that, I go whole hog and pack some anti corrosion salve into it, after inspecting the pins as well as I can.
You don’t want to go blaming any of the computers at this point!
With You, suspecting the system relay it was an excellent thought, I shall add!
The soldering on the circuit traces are subject to cracking inside of those. A reheat of the solder can fix them for spares!
I recommend doing this, so called “power amplifier,” about every ten years or longer, depending on the car working environments. It should be considered a routine maintenance to stop the possibility of like issues that you are experiencing.
Between the coil wire, itself or the rotor button, in the distributor, they can be other causes but it’s usually a hard starting issue with those.
Hope this spreading of the boards suggestions helps!
Phil
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Very good. I'll take a look. I have the heat sink paste and will check/re-solder the relay pads and look for cracks.
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I pulled and took apart the Ignition relay. The solder joints looked good, but I re-soldered them anyway since it was apart. I cleaned all the connections and put some paste to try to keep any corrosion away.
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Hi,
I’m confused about the way you used the term Ignition Relay.
The system relay is the one that’s under the dash in the cabins passenger side.
The coil relay or power relay, as it’s sometimes called, is behind the battery and does not have any soldering circuits. The unit is solid state!
The cable that is being talked about being recovered with aluminum tape is the CPS and its held by one bolt. This added to my confusion too!
Let us know which one you worked on.
Phil
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The relay I’m writing about is aft of the battery near the ignition coil. Mine is black in color. I was able to open the relay up and check the solder connections and proper operation. You are correct, the CPS only has one bolt, and I managed to snap the head off while removing it a few months ago. Was able to get the remaining bolt out, but it wasn’t fun. Like you said, the system relay is sealed. Some of the terminals had some corrosion so I cleaned those up. At least I think the small silver box near the left fender is the system relay!
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Hi there,
The relay I’m talking about is not a square metal box or anything you can open up.
It is flat and is mounted to the inner fender with two screws on top of an aluminum base.
It maybe a dark gray to black looking.
The component itself is held to the base with two other screws.
The paste goes on between the base and the electronic component.
The part is not between the coil and the battery but hidden behind the battery.
You almost have to take the battery out to even see. It’s dark back down in there.
In fact, I just went to look and familiarize myself again
It’s forward of the battery and more in line with the rear of the left headlight but on the fender.
Sort of off the front corner of the battery on the 1991.
What you are saying yours is mounted on the strut tower.
There is a headlight dipping relay and a fan relay for the air conditioning.
If you have a EGR there is a grey vacuum valve that operates the EGR.
It has a filter under a cap that can get clogged and cause the CEL to come on. Just a past experience.
I have three 1990’s cars so it’s been sometime since I have made a visit to bother them!
That part of the problem with these. Out of sight, out of mind!
Hope this helps with my confusion anyways!
Phil
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I would consider the ignition module.
My experience is that when they go bad the car will start and run fine until it just dies and won't restart until it has had a chance to sit for a bit. After sitting for awhile it will start again and run fine until it just dies again.
I don't remember where it is mounted on the 240's that have them but I believe it is on the inner fender panel near the battery.
This link shows an image of one:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-saab-porsche-ignition-module-0227100124
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Any twenty minute job is just a broken bolt away from a three day ordeal
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Thanks. I decided to order the ignition module as well. Thanks for all the suggestions and help.
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Hi,
Guess you missed my other post?
Ok, you have a path to repairing but unless you put the old one back and let it corrode some more, you’ll never know what fixed it? Ignition module, system relay, or a little corrosion that sneaks into everyone’s life?
Less knowledge gained along with a some less thickness in your wallet for a more comfortable ride, maybe?
Must be nice!
Phil
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