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HI,
I have a wildly intermittent issue with my 1980 242 DL. Car has B21F engine, Bosch ignition, and K-jet fuel injection. A small handful of times over the past many months the car would just turn off while driving. Engine just cuts out, no bucking or misfiring, just turns off. I pull over -- fortunately safely each time -- turn the key all the way to off, and then it restarts immediately on the first crank. No more problem after that. Also, and maybe unrelated but worth mentioning, every so often it will be hard to start. Again, only a very few times over several months. Here, it will crank with no apparent spark. Extensive cranking, 3-4-5 times with no success. Then, all of sudden, fires right up on barely the first crank, like turning on a light switch. Cannot isolate or duplicate the condition in order to test.
I have replaced several things and discovered a few "possible causes" along the way, such as ignition switch, cap, rotor, plugs, plug wires, coil, both fuel pumps. Running out of ideas.
Many years ago (15-20) I had a similar condition crop up, and was lucky enough to be able to isolate it to an intermittently failing Hall sensor in the distributor. Replaced the distributor and all has been fine since then...until now.
Appreciate any ideas to check further, and also any descriptions of conditions you have experienced with a wonky Hall sensor.
Thanks.
Mike
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Update. I traced all ignition wiring from the fuse box, to coil, ignition control box and distributor. Replaced, cleaned and tightened all spade connectors. New ignition control box as well. Basically, everything leading to the distributor itself has been checked, and/or replaced. Distributor is fairly new. Plug and coil wires are new, as are cap and rotor. Fires right up with barely a crank now, idles strong and smooth. Crossing fingers, toes and eyes that this may have resolved the very intermittent issue.
Thanks to all for guidance and suggestions to help think this out.
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Ten years ago I had a similar issue with my '80 242. I suspected an ignition problem.
With input from the better minds here (in fact, Dave, Phil and Art were amongst those who responded back then) I came to suspect that it was actually the fuel pump relay. I finally confirmed this by observing the relay with cover removed and seeing the contact that powered the fuel pump suddenly open for no apparent reason. The solenoid was going bad.
--
'79 242, '84 DL 2 door, '80 DL 2 door, '89 DL Wagon, '15 XC70 T6 AWD
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Thanks again for the ideas. One ting I forgot to mention was that the fuel pump relay has also been replaced recently.
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Hi,
Volvo books?
That interesting how a hall sensor and a impulse sender seems to be the same thing in my mind.
Since I have never written a book, I’m not going to make a “hard copy” of thoughts to pass on here! Whoops, I’m scribbling! (:)
I have a 1978 2.1 K-Jet too!
I ran into a similar issue a real long time a go!
It was hard to start and then worked itself up to stalling.
I too had cleaned up the connections on the ballast resistor, since I found it, Buried, under a strut tower cave after many years of ownership. It wasn’t it but it looked like it could have been!
I would like to share another aspect that you listen for the frequency valve to be “buzzing” when are having a stall or restart issue.
There is a square silver relay on the left fender well that connects the frequency valve to the ECU.
Mine was corroded from underneath nd up inside the relay. Very intermittent!
If both do not work correctly the engine will not run right or start.
That relay was a hard lesson learned with a lot of looking and waiting for it too get bad enough to find.
If you don’t hear the fuel pumps or for sure, that frequency valve buzz, you have an issue to resolve!
Happy to see you on here Art!
Phil
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Mike, the 1980 B21F distributor doesn't have what is referred to as a "hall" sensor - those came on later models. The symptoms may well be due to a failing distributor though. There is a unit mounted inside with a copper winding (which can be replaced) that can short out and cause intermittent problems such as you describe. If you determine there's no spark when the issue arises I do have a working distributor in my recently retired (due to rust) but good running 1980 245. Its distributor is available if needed. Contact me at- fastforwardphoto(AT)yahoo(DOT)com -or call six-three-one 968-8933. -- Dave
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Thanks, Dave.
I'll let you know. Maybe I used the wrong terminology. In the Volvo green books for my year it refers to the "impulse sender" in the distributor, which, as you say, cane be replaced. Looks just like what is in mine.
I'll be on touch about your offer.
Mike
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I have a '79 with the same Bosch "breakerless" ignition. There was a time, maybe 15 years ago, when the car would turn off just like your post reminded me. Started again, each time, whether still in the traffic lane or pulled over safely. It made me think the ignition switch was the intermittent element, but the scary behavior stopped after I cleaned and re-tensioned the spade connectors under the hood at the ignition coil and the ballast resistor.
Since then, I've heard the impulse sender, a coil of fine wire in the dizzy, has the chance of opening up (wire breaking) with temperature fluctuations, resulting in the same symptoms. While making notes on the system, I caused an identical condition when a terminal in the harness connector from the distributor backed out a tad from my handling. Story is here: http://cleanflametrap.com/breakerless.htm
--
Art Benstein near Baltimore
A bargain is something you don't need at a price you can't resist.
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Thanks so much Art. Yes, I have done the same wit the spade connectors at the coil, but will also check the ones at the ballast resistor. I also have a couple of spare electronic control units to check out as well. Thanks especially for he,ping to guide my suspicions further that this is an electric/electronic issue.
Mike
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If you've got spare ICUs (Ignition Control Unit) Swap yours out.
I had the same thing happen years ago, on an 75.--tho a B20 engine the Ignition is the Bosch Breakerless.
The only difference my engine Always started first thing, the intermittent happened only after driving it. Very disconcerting on the highway.
I chased it, even replacing the Impulse sender---easy replacement, unlike the later Hall Sensor, and cheaper.
That was not it. I eventually went to a junk yard and got another ICU. That solved it. This was in the late 1980s, so this stuff was still to be had.
Distrib blow-up Bosch Breakerless
https://vp-autoparts.se/bilder/artiklar/sprangskisser/1501050451l.jpg
The Impulse Sender--2A in the above.
https://swedishcarparts.com/uploads/part_image/file_name/000/001/752/1752/4b331056.JPG
Great book to have
Volvo Problem Solver Advanced Repair Manual 1962-1994 Models.PDF
Go Here:
https://ozvolvo.org/archive/
Type in the Search Box---Exactly
Volvo_Problem_Solver
You probably won't have to type more than Volvo_Problem....DownLoad the PDF
Section 28. 201, 207, 221, 271 covers Breakerless Ig. (actually 2 pages total both sides in order in the book)
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Thanks. Yes, I do have a couple of spare ICU's along with the cables that connect it to the distributor. Also have spare distributors. Will swap things out, inspecting and testing along the way for anything remotely obvious, and see what happens. Thanks again for the guidance.
BTW, a good friend and now-retired excellent Volvo tech claimed to have pinpointed the problem. His guidance: "You know, the car IS 40+ years old...."
Mike
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I paste "Volvo Problem Solver Advanced Repair Manual 1962-1994 Models.PDF" in the search box at the top and nothing happen. Am I doing something wrong ?
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You need to Type EXACTLY what I posted above---in the Search Box
********Type in the Search Box---Exactly
Volvo_Problem_Solver
You probably won't have to type more than Volvo_Problem.****
Needs the Underscore _ between the words
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Thank you, it works well with the underscores
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